Focke Wulf Ta-183

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Grzesio
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Post by Grzesio » 22 Sep 2005 11:46

OK, so here's how it looks like. According to very basics of perspective, all paralel lines not perpendicular to the direction of viewing should cross in the same point. And so I extended lines connecting tips of wings and tailplane, then I drew an ellipse of the air intake and circumscribed it about by a cyan square in the same perspective as the wings and tailplane. Diagonals of the square cross the ellipse in four points, which should create another square in the same perspective as the cyan one (it's the basic method of checking if a square is drawn correctly in perspective). Sadly, this square (yellow) is strongly tilted to one side, what proves that the ellipse (air intake) and wings are not seen in the same perspective i.e. the axis of the a/c nose is not paralel to the axis of the rest of the fuselage. QED

Regards

Grzesio
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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 22 Sep 2005 16:57

Huck wrote: Some of them used the same, visually striking, configuration - the stepped design - that has a short fuselage for the length of the engine and the tail suspended on a thin boom. Stepped design was a necessity dictated by the low thrust of the early jet fighters. Although less efficient aerodynamically this configuration preserved the thrust of the engine, which was not true for other configurations available at that time. For instance, P-80 lost more than 1/4 of the engine thrust because of the lenghty intake ducts and exhaust pipe. Such thrust loss could not be compensated by any aerodynamic solution, therefore in the early days of jet flight the stepped design was very popular.
Huck :

I think that the most Ta-183 look a like aircraft is the Russian Lavotchkine La-15 !

Can you explain more about :

"Stepped design" , What is it ?

" Lenghty intake ducts" & exhaust pipe , What is it ?
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Last edited by 2stroke on 22 Sep 2005 19:53, edited 1 time in total.

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 22 Sep 2005 17:02

Deleted ! :D
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MadderCat
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Post by MadderCat » 22 Sep 2005 18:44

Lenghty intake ducts & exhaust pipe , What is it ?

"lenghty intake duct" roughly equals long way through the aircraft to the engine, like a tunnel to the engine
"lenghty exhaust pipe " roughly equals long way from ignition of fuel in the jet engine to the outside

stepped design
look at the picture we're discussing, tail is way behind the exhaust , it's creating an "step"
in the outlines of the aircraft


for instance look at the size of an Jumo003 fitted at an Me262
then compare with the size of the Ta-183 with incorporated an engine of equal size
and you will see that there are no long ways for the air

perhaps try to get an interior sketch with engine for an MiG-15
and you will see what ways the air has to travel in this plane





MadderCat

sorry, english is not my native language

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 22 Sep 2005 19:35

Whats the + & - with :

lenghty intake duct ?
lenghty exhaust pipe ?
stepped design ?
----------------------------------------------------------

Here is some picture of a SAAB J-29 "Flying Barrel"

What would you call the engines place in this aircraft ?

and what is the + & - with it ?
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2stroke
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one more !

Post by 2stroke » 22 Sep 2005 19:52

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 30 Sep 2005 00:17

:wink: /\ Lifting this Topic /\ :wink:

MadderCat
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Post by MadderCat » 30 Sep 2005 08:04

why?

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2stroke
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Post by 2stroke » 30 Sep 2005 12:33

Isn't it quite obviosly why I doing it !

....Nobody have answer/writen anything in the last 8 days !! :( :(

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Cantankerous
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Re: Ta 183 lookalikes

Post by Cantankerous » 12 Jun 2022 20:20

2stroke wrote:
22 Sep 2005 16:57
Huck wrote: Some of them used the same, visually striking, configuration - the stepped design - that has a short fuselage for the length of the engine and the tail suspended on a thin boom. Stepped design was a necessity dictated by the low thrust of the early jet fighters. Although less efficient aerodynamically this configuration preserved the thrust of the engine, which was not true for other configurations available at that time. For instance, P-80 lost more than 1/4 of the engine thrust because of the lenghty intake ducts and exhaust pipe. Such thrust loss could not be compensated by any aerodynamic solution, therefore in the early days of jet flight the stepped design was very popular.
Huck :

I think that the most Ta-183 look a like aircraft is the Russian Lavotchkine La-15 !

Can you explain more about :

"Stepped design" , What is it ?

" Lenghty intake ducts" & exhaust pipe , What is it ?
The Lavockhin La-15, despite having an air intake and tail empennage similar to that of the Ta 183, actually resembled the MiG-15 more than the Ta 183 in having a slightly shorter vertical stabilizer. Yefim Gordon has demonstrated before that the MiG design bureau used the MiG-8 canard aircraft and not the Ta 183 as the basis for the MiG-15's swept wing design, noting that the MiG-15 was designed for speeds close to the sound barrier unlike the Ta 183. Whether the Lavockhin OKB knew of German research regarding swept wings after the Red Army overran production facilities of the Heinkel company that designed the backswept wing P.1078 jet fighter project remains an open question.

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Topspeed
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Re:

Post by Topspeed » 13 Jun 2022 09:39

Grzesio wrote:
22 Sep 2005 11:46
OK, so here's how it looks like. According to very basics of perspective, all paralel lines not perpendicular to the direction of viewing should cross in the same point. And so I extended lines connecting tips of wings and tailplane, then I drew an ellipse of the air intake and circumscribed it about by a cyan square in the same perspective as the wings and tailplane. Diagonals of the square cross the ellipse in four points, which should create another square in the same perspective as the cyan one (it's the basic method of checking if a square is drawn correctly in perspective). Sadly, this square (yellow) is strongly tilted to one side, what proves that the ellipse (air intake) and wings are not seen in the same perspective i.e. the axis of the a/c nose is not paralel to the axis of the rest of the fuselage. QED

Regards

Grzesio
You can also see the cut line in the empennage.

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