Experimental German Aircraft

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
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MAX_theHitMan
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#46

Post by MAX_theHitMan » 06 Oct 2007, 10:27

Since this thread got bumped up again, I guess I will post one of my digital artworks for you all.

Click on the image and check out my aviation gallery :)
Image

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phylo_roadking
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#47

Post by phylo_roadking » 06 Oct 2007, 14:30

Good work....but somehow I don't think they'd be flying in THAT weather! LOL

Sadly, that was ONE concept that would NOT have worked. The US experiments after the war with their tailsitter showed that. There's NO way on this design to handle the transition from level flight to vertical and backwards for landing, and there's no way to see the ground and mnitor your approach. The "transition" problem was one that took MANY years and many designs to crack, and still isn't perfect; the Harrier does it at the cost of a terrible fuel penalty, the necessity for "puffer jets" to assist low-speed transition....and can still get tied up in knots. Most modern VTOL fixed-wing aircraft actually perform far better using their abilities in a compromise as STOL aircraft.


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MAX_theHitMan
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#48

Post by MAX_theHitMan » 07 Oct 2007, 09:21

Yes, you are quite correct Mr. phylo_roadking . This is a very odd looking machine they had invented although it does fly pretty cool in flight sim games such as IL-2, but it is only a game, not real life.
But that is sometimes the point of these bizarre inventions, it makes a person wonder of the "what if".
Still, it does make for some cool aviation artworks, which everyone can see at Luft46.

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Fliegende Untertasse
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#49

Post by Fliegende Untertasse » 07 Oct 2007, 09:36

MountainMan wrote:
jaybond wrote:We all know that many of the German jet designs are very futuristic looking. Why was the flying wing-style aircraft never been adopted for military aircraft production by other nations until we saw the B-2 Spirit? Why wait until 1980s?
We did use it. Northrop developed his first Flying Wing, the YB-49 in the 1940's. that was when radar operators noticed that it had a very small return; however, the post-war Air Corps/Air Force wasn't interested in radical new designs - they wanted jets, especially bombers.
You mean XB-35 . YB-49 was a jet. Early Nothrops had control problems wich were not fixed until computerized fly-by-wire. Tailles flying wing has a habit of stalling backwards and flipping over uncontrollably during violent maneuvers.

One of the first serious military flying wing projects was British Westland-Hill Pterodactyl in early 1920´s . And of course there was Dunne biplane flown allready in 1910.

stellung
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#50

Post by stellung » 11 Oct 2007, 23:46

The instability problem with the Northrop YB-49 was taken care of. Norhrop contacted Honeywell and they developed a device nicknamed "Little Herbert." A signed contract for 30 reconnaissance versions of this aircraft (RB-49) was delivered to Northrop by General Joseph McNarney. The entire production of these flying wings were scrapped since Northrop would not agree to a merger of his company with Consolidated Vultee. From the book Jack Northrop and the Flying Wing by Ted Coleman. Mr. Coleman was part of the Northrop company for some years.

The Horten Ho 229 sitting in unrestored condition, showing apparent lack of interest or even acknowledgement, of the work of the Horten brothers may have been a ruse. In a recent book, Horten Ho 229, Spirit of Thuringia, photographic proof is shown of the Ho 229 being assembled in America.

Some captured German aircraft at Wright Field were scrapped after all important internal components were removed. However, even at the end of the war, a few aircraft of advanced type were not fully accounted for. Also, photographic evidence for the very high altitude, rocket powered reconnaissance aircraft, the DFS 228, have surfaced, as well as photos of a two seat version of the V-1 Reichenberg.

Only in the past 8 years or so have additional details emerged about other German aircraft projects, but the victors did not want to advertise their use of this information for the most part. Understandable emotional issues and keeping secrets from the Russians which had initiated the Cold War before the last shots of World War II had been fired were among the biggest reasons. Among the aviation booty they acquired was the supersonic DFS 346 and a two seat version of the Me 163.

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phylo_roadking
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#51

Post by phylo_roadking » 12 Oct 2007, 00:36

Jack Northrop opting to go for the "recce bomber" specification was a way of keeping money coming in to the project, as the XB variant didn't meet the actual "bomber" specification and it had gone to Convair for the B-36. He had actually done a lot of the company's earlier development work out of the company's own funds, but the various rebuilds trying to sort the stability issue had drained the coffers. Its a pity he had to go for the contract for the funding - as the USAF therefore "owned" the prototypes, and were perfectly at liberty to sequester them and destory them. They may have had the "right" to....but it wasn't right that we don't have one, only the lovely film footage of the RB-49 :-(

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Cantankerous
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Re: Experimental German Aircraft

#52

Post by Cantankerous » 30 May 2022, 05:56

stellung wrote:
11 Oct 2007, 23:46
Some captured German aircraft at Wright Field were scrapped after all important internal components were removed. However, even at the end of the war, a few aircraft of advanced type were not fully accounted for. Also, photographic evidence for the very high altitude, rocket powered reconnaissance aircraft, the DFS 228, have surfaced, as well as photos of a two seat version of the V-1 Reichenberg.

Only in the past 8 years or so have additional details emerged about other German aircraft projects, but the victors did not want to advertise their use of this information for the most part. Understandable emotional issues and keeping secrets from the Russians which had initiated the Cold War before the last shots of World War II had been fired were among the biggest reasons. Among the aviation booty they acquired was the supersonic DFS 346 and a two seat version of the Me 163.
The Junkers EF 126 was another late-war German aircraft design that was completed and flown post-war at the behest of the Soviet military personnel charge of the Junkers factory in Dessau, of which they had taken control in July 1945, a few months after US Army units captured the Junkers Dessau plant. The first EF 126 prototype was flown unpowered, towed into the skies by a captured Ju 88G-6, and it would not be until the remaining four prototypes of the EF 126 were transported to the USSR that the EF 126 had its first powered flight. Even then, the EF 126 was a technological dead end due to the limitations of its pulsejet engine, and the Soviets bothered to continue testing the EF 126. The Soviets also got their hands on Junkers documents regarding the Jumo 004B-powered EF 131 variant of the Ju 287 FSW bomber and the backswept wing EF 132 long-range jet bomber, and they let Brunolf Baade and other Junkers engineers continue with development of the EF 131 and EF 132, but only the EF 131 was built, the first prototype initially undergoing taxi tests at Dessau before being shipped to the USSR in late 1946, eventually making its first flight in May 1947 at the Soviet flight test center at Ramenskoye near Moscow. The EF 131 also spawned the twin-engine EF 140 flown in 1948-1949, and even though the EF 131 and EF 140 remained at the prototype stage only, they successfully demonstrated forward-swept wing flight at high subsonic speeds that otherwise might have been carried out by the Ju 287 V2, Ju 287 V3 or proposed production Ju 287.

References:
* Lommel, H., 2004. Junkers Ju 287: The World's First Swept-Wing Jet Aircraft. Atglen, PA: Shiffer Publishing, Ltd.
* Ransom, S., and Evans, P.D., 2008. Junkers Ju 287: Germany's Forward Swept Wing Bomber. Hersham, UK: Ian Allan Publishing. ISBN 978-1-903223-92-5.
* Sobolew, D.A., 2000. Deutsche Spuren in der sowjetischen Luftfahrtgeschichte. Die Teilnahme deutscher Firmen und Fachleute an der Luftfahrtentwicklung in der UdSSR. Mittler, Hamburg. ISBN 3-8132-0675-0.

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