Indeed he was. I read that he was never shot down by an enemy fighter; that every time he was shot down, it was due to ground fire. I might be wrong, but I think I read that somewhere. In one crash, he lost part of his leg and ended the war flying with a prosthetic limb. Bader and Saburo Saki both flew with injuries as well. Read "Stuka Pilot", Rudel's autobiography. I haven't read it yet, but it's sitting on my desk right next to "Horrido!" which I would also recommend.
Respectfully,
Logan Hartke
Best Luftwaffe Ace
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mike262752
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Erich
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Rudel passed away in 1982. An excellent pilot who had the gift of excellent eyesight and an intuitiveness for where the action was. His former Schlachtgeschwader had quite a few notable ground attck aces. Becuase of his high score he notierity of course grew and he was a favorite propaganda puppet, for which he detested as he felt his duty was to be with his men and fly missions.
I can think of several night fighter pilots such as Wolfgang Schnaufer with amazing quickness and excellent self control. Bruno Rupp scoring a kill over a lancaster bomber with only two 2cm rounds from his schräg waffen. lasly Heinz Rökker still alive today and gives himself openly to anyone that asks questions of him. A 64 victory ace and quite a gentleman.
just some thoughts all you're way.
E
I can think of several night fighter pilots such as Wolfgang Schnaufer with amazing quickness and excellent self control. Bruno Rupp scoring a kill over a lancaster bomber with only two 2cm rounds from his schräg waffen. lasly Heinz Rökker still alive today and gives himself openly to anyone that asks questions of him. A 64 victory ace and quite a gentleman.
just some thoughts all you're way.
E
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Logan Hartke
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Yes, that is true, but my thoughts had all blended into one train of thought. I was thinking that flak would be included since that was the only way the Soviets ever shot him down (never shot down by a fighter). My mistake, I knew it was due to flak, but I forgot to specify that in my post.mike262752 wrote:Rudel lost his leg and still flew with a fake leg, but i think it was due to flak hitting him in his leg, not a crash.
Logan Hartke
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Victor
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Well, technically he WASN'T. Didn't the Luftwaffe consider aces (unlike the Allies) only after 10 confirmed victories? As I know Rudel had 9 victories. Anyway, the rear-gunner also had some credit in these...Logan Hartke wrote: I agree, that's why I specified between ace (what the writer of the poll said) and fighter pilot (what I believe the writer of the poll implied). Technically, Rudel is an ace since he scored over 5 air-to-air kills, but he is certainly not a fighter pilot. That's why I made mine specific.
Respectfully,
Logan Hartke
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Erich
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Victor :
It is 5 confirmed kills with the Luftwaffe as well. One of his rear gunners did in fact shoot down 1-3 a/c but this sometimes is accredited to the pilot in his overall total.
A story for you and all. Martin "Tino" Becker scored 9 victories in the night skies over Germany on March 14/15 1945. Martin's forward 2cm weapons jammed.....actually he ran out of ammo in one source and his bordfünker Karl Johanssen dispatched 2 Lancasters and 1 B-17 near Schwäbisch Hall, Dagmar and near Crailsheim with his single mg 131. All this while trying to put out a radio/radar fire in the cockpit. They were flying their trusty Ju 88G-6 2Z+MF. This in an interview I had with Karl in may of 99. Karl's 3 successes even though attributed to him were in martin's final count.
E 8)
It is 5 confirmed kills with the Luftwaffe as well. One of his rear gunners did in fact shoot down 1-3 a/c but this sometimes is accredited to the pilot in his overall total.
A story for you and all. Martin "Tino" Becker scored 9 victories in the night skies over Germany on March 14/15 1945. Martin's forward 2cm weapons jammed.....actually he ran out of ammo in one source and his bordfünker Karl Johanssen dispatched 2 Lancasters and 1 B-17 near Schwäbisch Hall, Dagmar and near Crailsheim with his single mg 131. All this while trying to put out a radio/radar fire in the cockpit. They were flying their trusty Ju 88G-6 2Z+MF. This in an interview I had with Karl in may of 99. Karl's 3 successes even though attributed to him were in martin's final count.
E 8)
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PzDivisionLehr
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Re:
It really all depend but i look on the numbers and it is Eric
But for tactic and strategy you always have to look at the pilot's plane and his current physical and mental condition to me.
But for tactic and strategy you always have to look at the pilot's plane and his current physical and mental condition to me.
<img src="http://members.aol.com/bogdanovaslava/i ... tiger1.gif">
<I>"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows." Guderian, 1937</I>
<IMG Src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/ThomasKluetsch ... /pa339.jpg">
<I>"If the tanks succeed, then victory follows." Guderian, 1937</I>
<IMG Src="http://mitglied.lycos.de/ThomasKluetsch ... /pa339.jpg">
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Erich
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Erich had a true sense as a fighter pilot but all you guys have to agree if you know anything aobut the war on the Ost front in the air during 1941-1943. There were tons of targets and the Soveir air-man was no match for the skilled Luftwaffe pilot. Kills came very easily to JG 52 as they amassed over 11,000 during the war.
I prefer to look at the later war achievements of the tagdjagd and nachtjagd and it is here were you will find the best pilots in all categories.
E
I prefer to look at the later war achievements of the tagdjagd and nachtjagd and it is here were you will find the best pilots in all categories.
E
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Victor
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By 1943, there was a clear improvement of the VVS in the quality of both airplanes and pilots. They weren't that easy targets anymore. Erich Hartmann didn't catch the "good times" of 1941, when the Jagdfliegern shot down scores of inferioir Soviet aircraft. If I remember correctly, he started to fly on the front at the end of 1942.
I have in a magazine a combat report of a US pilot (Lawrence Thompson)that met Hartmann in the air over Romania in 44 and was lucky to escape with his life. I can post it if you would like. It's really good.
I have in a magazine a combat report of a US pilot (Lawrence Thompson)that met Hartmann in the air over Romania in 44 and was lucky to escape with his life. I can post it if you would like. It's really good.
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Johan Elisson
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Hi again, I found out some interresting facts http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen9.htm that Hans Ulrich Rudel flew around 400 of his 2530 missions in a Focke-Wulf 190 and it was with this plane that the 9 (11) air victories were scored.
/Johan
/Johan
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Erich
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Johan :
The figure of 400 missions seems awfully high to me as he would not have flown the Fw 190 until mid 44 or later. Was this info for the D-9 that he supposed flew ? My computer is having major server problems so I am not accessing the achtung panzer pages......
Victor, my previous post may have been a bit confusing to you, but what I was trying to point out is that the Estern front Geschwaders like JG 51, 52 and 54 put up tremendous scores from 41-43, I was not necessarily singly out Erich Hartmann except for the fact that he had easy pickings of Soviet a/c since there were hundreds to choose from. 41-43 was a killing ground and the Soviets really did not come into their own till almost mid late 44 when they started to have air supremacy only by numbers. Granted there were excellent ace pilots but not of the caliber of the Luftwaffe airmen.
E 8)
The figure of 400 missions seems awfully high to me as he would not have flown the Fw 190 until mid 44 or later. Was this info for the D-9 that he supposed flew ? My computer is having major server problems so I am not accessing the achtung panzer pages......
Victor, my previous post may have been a bit confusing to you, but what I was trying to point out is that the Estern front Geschwaders like JG 51, 52 and 54 put up tremendous scores from 41-43, I was not necessarily singly out Erich Hartmann except for the fact that he had easy pickings of Soviet a/c since there were hundreds to choose from. 41-43 was a killing ground and the Soviets really did not come into their own till almost mid late 44 when they started to have air supremacy only by numbers. Granted there were excellent ace pilots but not of the caliber of the Luftwaffe airmen.
E 8)
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Victor
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Logan Hartke
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These links tell about Rudel and FW190s. There are a few pics, too.
http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Stuka/Rudel/rudel.htm
http://www.geocities.com/bookie190/Kitzingen.htm
Logan Hartke
http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Stuka/Rudel/rudel.htm
http://www.geocities.com/bookie190/Kitzingen.htm
Logan Hartke
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Erich
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Logan, Victor
I have those pics in my collection from the Bookie site. In fact I helped one of my co-authors with an article that was send to him for this particular site. Rudel did not fly the F-8 or A-8, when he surrendered, in fact his flying the Fw 190 is still up for specualtion. He supposed flew a D-9 at times, but remember we stated in an earlier posting that one of his Ju 87 rear gunners scored between 1-3 victories with the twin .30 cal weapons. Major Karl Kennel had a small staffel of Fw 190's that flew high cover for Rudel and his Kanonvogels during 1945. In fact Rudels book authored by Günter Just, Günter being one of those Fw 190 pilots.....
E
I have those pics in my collection from the Bookie site. In fact I helped one of my co-authors with an article that was send to him for this particular site. Rudel did not fly the F-8 or A-8, when he surrendered, in fact his flying the Fw 190 is still up for specualtion. He supposed flew a D-9 at times, but remember we stated in an earlier posting that one of his Ju 87 rear gunners scored between 1-3 victories with the twin .30 cal weapons. Major Karl Kennel had a small staffel of Fw 190's that flew high cover for Rudel and his Kanonvogels during 1945. In fact Rudels book authored by Günter Just, Günter being one of those Fw 190 pilots.....
E