Best Luftwaffe Ace

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Luftwaffe air units and general discussions on the Luftwaffe.
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houndie
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Post by houndie » 08 Aug 2002 16:13

You keep saying "Marseille", but how many fighters did he destroy?

Victor, I'd be very pleased to take a glimpse on the US fighter's article. To think of Hartmann being like a professional fighter and evading him being something to talk about... My respect towards Hartmann has increased a bit...
War is a matter of vital importance to the state. Hence, it is imperative that it be studied thoroughly - sun tzu
The truth of world war should be documented and it should not be treated as nazi propaganda.

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Erich
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Marseille

Post by Erich » 08 Aug 2002 18:40

Hauptmann Hans-Joachim Marseille scored his last 6 kills on September 26, 1942. All spitifres South west of El Alamein and Imayid, El-Hammam. From 09.13 through 17.10 hours.

158 claims made.......

E

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houndie
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Post by houndie » 18 Aug 2002 01:30

How the hell can you destroy 6 spitfires!? I understand with nowaday machinery, but with a Me109E or something like that!
War is a matter of vital importance to the state. Hence, it is imperative that it be studied thoroughly - sun tzu
The truth of world war should be documented and it should not be treated as nazi propaganda.

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AirborneAllTheWay
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Post by AirborneAllTheWay » 18 Aug 2002 01:53

Marseille. He was the finest.

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AirborneAllTheWay
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Post by AirborneAllTheWay » 18 Aug 2002 02:06

Hans-Joachim Marseille...

"However, there is no doubt that my true schoolmaster was Marseille; I studied his tactics for attacking the British defensive circles for a long time, tried it myself often without success - and finally, learned the lesson. . . During the fights over the convoys to Tobruk, the British introduced the defensive circle. It was very efficient, but then Marseille disenchanted it; he would dive down near the circle, pull out and zoom into it from below. He reached the level of the circle just before stalling, just in time to level off, shoot down a Tommy and start to spin to sea level, where he pulled out at the last second (it was impossible to follow him). He then climbed back to his own formation and repeated the performance until the circle broke up. No other German pilot was able to copy Marseille's tricks, although all made attempts to do so, and sometimes succeeded in breaking up the circle."
Werner Schrör,
Fighters Over the Desert, p.232

"On 15 September, 1942, for example, Marseille destroyed 7 Australian fighter aircraft within an eleven minute period and on 17 June, 1942, Marseille destroyed six aircraft within a seven minute period"

"Facts are that Marseille is still acknowledged as among the best marksmen in the Luftwaffe. The Germans were very meticulous in filing combat reports with all relevant data to include time of battle, area of operation, opposition encountered, as well as an in-depth armorers report. At the end of a mission, the armorers would count the number of bullets and cannon shells expended during the fight. Marseille would often average an astonishing 15 bullets required per victory, and this with a combat resulting in his downing of several allied aircraft. No other German pilot was close to Marseille in this area."

"Marseille, a German of French Huguenot ancestry, was in the words of the General of the German Fighter Arm, Adolf Galland, "The unrivaled virtuoso of fighter pilots." His ability to sometimes destroy entire squadrons of enemy aircraft in a single sortie is the substance legends are made of, and the kind of material ripe for critics to study and either deny or defend. Marseille is still regarded by most German Luftwaffe pilots to have been the best of the best; excelling as a marksman, an acrobatic pilots, as well as one of the best combat tacticians in the Luftwaffe. Together, the synergy created by the accumulation of these talents forged one of the most lethal fighter pilots of his era."

Kills: 158 154 Fighter aircraft
4 Bomber aircraft
Awards:
- Iron Cross 2nd Class - September 1940
- Iron Cross 1st Class - Fall 1940
- German Cross in Gold - 24 November, 1941
- Knight's Cross - 22 February, 1942
- Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves - 6 June, 1942
- Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords - 18 June, 1942
- Italian Medaglia d' Oro for bravery - 6 August, 1942
- Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords, and Diamonds
3 September, 1942

For more visit http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/hanstate.html

Sorry, for all this but I have studied this guy and I truly believe he was a natural master in the air.

Add him to the Poll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen:

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de-gouden-ridder
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Post by de-gouden-ridder » 23 Aug 2002 16:45

Rudel was extremely good, But with ace they mean AIR VICTORIES, so he can't be chosen.

I think Marseille was very good, and I find it sad that he can't be chosen, but Hartman is the best. He evne shot down 2 Russian fighters on 8 /05/1945, what a glorious end of the war for him.

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Nicklas Fredriksson
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Post by Nicklas Fredriksson » 23 Aug 2002 17:34

Hello!

None of the above for me, Major Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer 121 kills in a night-fighter... :o

Kind rgds
Nick

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 24 Aug 2002 06:58

houndie wrote:How the hell can you destroy 6 spitfires!? I understand with nowaday machinery, but with a Me109E or something like that!
Nope, actually it was a Bf-109F, which was by far superior to the fighters the British could throw at him, mainly P-40s.

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Gott
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Post by Gott » 24 Aug 2002 08:21

To me, I think my grandfather is the best ace of the Luftwaffe.

I like them all, but i voted for Barkhorn because no one voted for him... and also because he is a native Koenigsberger, like my grandfather.

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Victor
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Post by Victor » 24 Aug 2002 10:29

gott wrote:To me, I think my grandfather is the best ace of the Luftwaffe.

I like them all, but i voted for Barkhorn because no one voted for him... and also because he is a native Koenigsberger, like my grandfather.
How many kills did your grandfather had? What unit was he in? Maybe you could tell us more about him, even stories he told you. I for one would be interested and I am sure there are others here too.

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Erich
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Post by Erich » 26 Aug 2002 23:11

Victor :

I am trying to work with gott to decipher his grandfather's soldbuch so we can determine just what day fighter unit he flew in. One with Bf 109G'6's I would imagine from our short chats.

As to aces, I am still preferring as Nick mentioned the nachtjagd. Schnaufer was mightly skilled no doubt, but others such as Rudi Schoenert and Werner Hoffman, Heinz Rökker have been given slight mention. Their deeds in the night air are almost with out parallel. Also the single seat night fighter boys.......of course that is one of the books that I am research/writing at present.

E

Panzer Gunner
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Post by Panzer Gunner » 30 Aug 2002 02:46

What about Gunther Rall? He should have been on the list!

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Juha Tompuri
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Post by Juha Tompuri » 17 Sep 2002 22:42

Stern von Afrika

JT

carloman
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Post by carloman » 15 Nov 2002 13:35

to me, no problem. Hans Joachim Marseille seems to be the best ace.
Carloman

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Korbius
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Post by Korbius » 15 Nov 2002 17:52

Marseille was the best cuz his kills were on the Western front, compared to the kills that Hartmann had, against soviet pilots which were inexperienced and poorly trained.

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