Perhaps, but how long would that last. Certainly not for hundreds of kills. And certainly not when a crash site cannot be found or someone disputes your claim. You'll have to try better than that.It wouldn't kill you to verify the "victory" of your brother-in-arms would it? Next time he would do the same for you.
.....so whats your point?tonyh wrote:
It also had to be varified by ground troops and if applicable by a crash site. The Luftwaffe were meticulous in these regards.
So were the soviets, if the german plane did not crash into the ground, but only went smoking over the horizon, the victory did not count because it was possible that the pilot could have landed on his own aerodrome.]
All claims were sifted through the Gruppen adjudant and endorsed by the Staffelführer or Gruppenkommandeur, then it was sent on to the RLM in Berlin, where it could get caught up in red tape for a long period. Finally the pilot recieved noticed whether his claim was filed as legitimate or not. It was far from a straight forward procedure.
So it was more like New York stock exchange.]
It does no military service to deliberately overclaim, in fact it does a dis service. As the records I've quoted above state the Luftwaffe actually underclaimed in the first six months of the war in the East. Your statemnt is simply not backed up by the historical record, certainly not in the first year of the air war in Russia. .
Now you are pulling away from the topic (whether intentionally or not I don't know). As far as I remember we were discussing overall performance of German versus Soviet air forces.
You are shifting towards the beginning of the war, why? The soviets did suffer tremendous losses to the air forces in the beginning of operation Barbarossa (most of the planes were bombed on the ground or crushed by tanks). Nobody denies that. That was the toll of a surprise attack. The whole infrastructure of Soviet Air forces in Ukraine and Belorussia was destroyed.
But the losses, no matter how huge they were, appeared to be recoverable, and it was proven by continuous fighting in the air even in the darkest days of the war against Germany.
So giving me 1941 figures is no good. The soviet planes were mostly obsolete.
I'm not "pulling" from anything at all. My comments are well within the boundries of this topic. If you wish you can narrow it down yto any stage of WWII, just say clearly which period you want to talk about. I post the statistics of claim/loss for the for 12 months of the Eastern air war to show you that the Luftwaffe were far from "extremely exagerrating" their claims.
Of course the losses were recoverable, I have never said otherwise. In fact I've stated it in other posts. Giving you the claim/loss statistics disproves your statement that the Luftwaffe "extremely exagerrated". I'll try to find the same statistics for the period of June 42 to May 45 and post them. Until then I would suggest to you taht you pick up the first two volumes of Black cross/Red star and the subsequent volumes for a comprehensive list of claims and losses from both sides.
The Yak 1 was available in 1941 and was the only plane capable of dealing with the German 109's on an equal basis. Later versions of the Yak especially the Yak 3 and Yak 9 were superior to the 109G 6 and Fw190A 5. But who has said otherwise?When new planes such as Yak, Tu, Pe and Il appeared the Germans were struggling in the air
Also which version of the TU are you talking about? Most were twin engined attack planes which most definitely could NOT compete with a single engine German fighter. Neither could a Pe 2 or 3....As for an Il (I presume you mean IL2 or 4 or 10? These were also attack aircraft an not capable of tackling a single engined German fighter at all.