German High Commanders of WW2
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Hello
I wonder how could Geyer act as deputy for 1 month and 1/2, correct ? Was it usual so long time ?
No deputy at Geyer' s corps ?
Which source confirms v. Schwedler shortly as deputy ?
Keilig and others sources (maybe Schörner´s biography too ?) report Schörner as deputy, wrong ?
Rossano
I wonder how could Geyer act as deputy for 1 month and 1/2, correct ? Was it usual so long time ?
No deputy at Geyer' s corps ?
Which source confirms v. Schwedler shortly as deputy ?
Keilig and others sources (maybe Schörner´s biography too ?) report Schörner as deputy, wrong ?
Rossano
Re: German army commanders of WW2
For von Schwedler:
"Generaloberst Hoth wird beauftragt mit der Führung der Heeresgruppe Süd, General der Infanterie von Schwedler vorläufig mit der Führung der 17. Armee." KTB AOK 17 dated 15.01.1942
"General der Infanterie von Schwedler übernimmt vorläufig die Führung der 17. Armee für den mit der Führung der Heeresegruppe Süd beauftragen Generaloberst Hoth." KTB AOK 17 dated 16.01.1942
"Generaloberst Hoth übernimmt wieder Führg. der 17. Armee."
KTB AOK 17 dated 20.01.1942
Can't find any mention Schörner of in command of 17. Armee in his biographies by Kern and Kaltenegger.
Regards
John
"Generaloberst Hoth wird beauftragt mit der Führung der Heeresgruppe Süd, General der Infanterie von Schwedler vorläufig mit der Führung der 17. Armee." KTB AOK 17 dated 15.01.1942
"General der Infanterie von Schwedler übernimmt vorläufig die Führung der 17. Armee für den mit der Führung der Heeresegruppe Süd beauftragen Generaloberst Hoth." KTB AOK 17 dated 16.01.1942
"Generaloberst Hoth übernimmt wieder Führg. der 17. Armee."
KTB AOK 17 dated 20.01.1942
Can't find any mention Schörner of in command of 17. Armee in his biographies by Kern and Kaltenegger.
Regards
John
Re: German army commanders of WW2
John, for the short period between 20.12.1940 and 01.01.1941, does the Tätigkeitsbericht (= KTB) say anything about Vincenz Müller? Was he there from the beginning? His card says he became Chef with 20 December.
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.
Re: German army commanders of WW2
No, Askropp, I just saw the post but not your reply to it. Thank you.
Best,
Bill
Best,
Bill
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Hi askropp
Both Vincenz Müller and Fritz Wentzell arrived on 18.12.1940 and assumed their posts on 20.12.1940.
The Tätigkeitsbericht der Führungsabteilung and the KRL - the IIa Tätigkeitsbericht doesn't start until 01.01.1941 - confirm both in post from 20.12.1940.
Regards
John
Both Vincenz Müller and Fritz Wentzell arrived on 18.12.1940 and assumed their posts on 20.12.1940.
The Tätigkeitsbericht der Führungsabteilung and the KRL - the IIa Tätigkeitsbericht doesn't start until 01.01.1941 - confirm both in post from 20.12.1940.
Regards
John
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Apparently Otto Hitzfeld never took over at AOK 11. See attachment from HPA.
Todd
Todd
Re: German army commanders of WW2
The best source of information on 11 Armee in April 1945 is FMS B-581 written by its Chief of Staff.
In this the sequence of events "on the ground" is that on 01.04.1945 HQ AOK 11 received a telex informing it that the HQ was to deploy to the front where command would be taken over by General Hitzfeld. Hitzfeld took over on 02.04.1945 and was in command until he was replaced by Lucht on 07.04.1945.
Back at HQ, Hitler initially appointed Hitzfeld (by Führerbefehl) then seems to have changed his mind, cancelled the appointment of Hitzeld and appointed Lucht [also by Führerbefehl].
Regards
John
In this the sequence of events "on the ground" is that on 01.04.1945 HQ AOK 11 received a telex informing it that the HQ was to deploy to the front where command would be taken over by General Hitzfeld. Hitzfeld took over on 02.04.1945 and was in command until he was replaced by Lucht on 07.04.1945.
Back at HQ, Hitler initially appointed Hitzfeld (by Führerbefehl) then seems to have changed his mind, cancelled the appointment of Hitzeld and appointed Lucht [also by Führerbefehl].
Regards
John
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Hello John
Hitzfeld/Lucht : I too have both exactly like You write above, but in this case I hardly understand the sense of "nicht wirksam geworden" for Hitzfeld in the attachment above (because Hitzfeld after all did take command of the 11.Armee, although for a few days only...)
Rgds., Rossano
Hitzfeld/Lucht : I too have both exactly like You write above, but in this case I hardly understand the sense of "nicht wirksam geworden" for Hitzfeld in the attachment above (because Hitzfeld after all did take command of the 11.Armee, although for a few days only...)
Rgds., Rossano
Re: German army commanders of WW2
John & Rossano,
Sorry to make things confusing. I didn't realize that Hitzfeld had actually taken command for a few days. I just came across this HPA document while going through NARA T-78 R-39 files and thought it might be helpful.
Todd
Sorry to make things confusing. I didn't realize that Hitzfeld had actually taken command for a few days. I just came across this HPA document while going through NARA T-78 R-39 files and thought it might be helpful.
Todd
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Hi Todd
There is no need to say sorry. Your posts are always valuable and please keep posting what you find as you examine the NARA Rolls. It all helps to provide a more complete view of command changes and appointments. Not in fact confusing but helps to understand 11 Armee.
Regards
John
There is no need to say sorry. Your posts are always valuable and please keep posting what you find as you examine the NARA Rolls. It all helps to provide a more complete view of command changes and appointments. Not in fact confusing but helps to understand 11 Armee.
Regards
John
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Regarding the apparent gap in mid-1944, I now believe that Allmendinger must be listed as being in command until Schulz took over (he was placed in FR on 25 July). Initially, I believed that Allmendinger did not return from his leave, but as his Vertreter Hartmann left in June, Allmendinger may have resumed actual command of the unemployed army staff. According to the Tätigkeitsbericht Chef HPA, Hitler did not decide to fire Allmendinger until 25 July, the day he named Schulz to the post.
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Hi askrop
Just looked at the Personalakte and "Generalkartei" for Hartmann. The last Beuteilung in the Personalakte is that given by Laux and Lindemann in May 1944. But there are some comments by Allmendinger as mdFb 17. Armee dated 11.07.1944 on his "Generalskartei" that supports your analysis that Allmendinger did resume command but was replaced by Schulz when it was decided to put the HQ back into the line.
Regards
John
Just looked at the Personalakte and "Generalkartei" for Hartmann. The last Beuteilung in the Personalakte is that given by Laux and Lindemann in May 1944. But there are some comments by Allmendinger as mdFb 17. Armee dated 11.07.1944 on his "Generalskartei" that supports your analysis that Allmendinger did resume command but was replaced by Schulz when it was decided to put the HQ back into the line.
Regards
John
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Here are the first two pages from the AOK 9 Stellenbesetzung (both dated 15 May 1944). GdI Hans Jordan is listed as m.d.F.b., with GdI Friedrich Wiese as his Vertreter. Interestingly, Jordan had initially been listed as having been on Urlaub, but that was crossed out. Also, it looks as if Wiese has been crossed out (albeit lightly) as well. I realize that these could have been crossed out at anytime after Jordan arrived, but I thought I would post this for information.
As a note: I found these pages on the German docs in Russia website http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/n ... ect/zoom/4 in the section in which select German documents have been translated by the Russians. Hoping that I might find an AOK 9 document from that time signed by Jordan or Wiese, I went through all 427 pages and found no other documents which were useful in this matter.
As a note: I found these pages on the German docs in Russia website http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/n ... ect/zoom/4 in the section in which select German documents have been translated by the Russians. Hoping that I might find an AOK 9 document from that time signed by Jordan or Wiese, I went through all 427 pages and found no other documents which were useful in this matter.
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Same document from NARA roll R-339 - with no crossings out.
Jordan was already on leave when his tasking to AOK was announced. From KTB AOK 9 dated 03.05.1944
Regards
John
Jordan was already on leave when his tasking to AOK was announced. From KTB AOK 9 dated 03.05.1944
Regards
John
Re: German army commanders of WW2
Hello
From AOK.9-Karte :
Rgds.
From AOK.9-Karte :
Rgds.
- Attachments
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- AOK.9b.jpg (12.41 KiB) Viewed 4970 times
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- AOK.9a.jpg (8.85 KiB) Viewed 4970 times