Poland 1939: KIA German officers

[Ste]

Got one name,that seems it's not yet been listed. But there's no evidence that his death was related to the poland campaign,he died in November and there's no place of death reported. So I don't know if post it or not.

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Post it please and we can add it to the Research Section. Although if he died in November and he is not buried in Poland (do you know where is he buried?) chance that he died of wounds suffered in Polenfeldzug is rather minimal.

[Ste]

The names are 2 now:

Nachname: Roth
Vorname: Hans
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 02.11.1914
Geburtsort: Saarbrücken
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 08.11.1939

Hans Roth ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Dahn (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) .
Endgrablage: Block 4 Reihe 4 Grab 2006


Nachname: Dr. Piepmeyer
Vorname: Erich
Dienstgrad: Assistenzarzt
Geburtsdatum: 26.04.1903
Geburtsort: Kassel
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 09.11.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Krosno



Erich Dr. Piepmeyer konnte im Rahmen unserer Umbettungsarbeiten nicht geborgen werden.
Die vorgesehene Überführung zum Sammelfriedhof in Siemianowice - Sammelfriedhof (Polen) war somit leider nicht möglich.

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

One more officer to add (Volksbund wrongly lists him as NCO):

This case is similar to the examples of Oberleutnant / Oberstleutnant mistakes from the 1st page of this thread.

Source - list of casualties of 3. Kp. / Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler in Polenfeldzug and in Westfeldzug:

http://www.kvhelsa.cz/nemecka-sekce/padly-3kompanie/

Untersturmführer Karl Wilhelm Janssen

14.9.1939 Sochazcev

While Volksbund wrongly lists him as:

Nachname: Janssen
Vorname: Karl-Wilhelm
Dienstgrad: Unterscharführer
Geburtsdatum: 08.07.1917
Geburtsort: Oldenburg
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 14.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Stochaczew

And one replacement entry:

Fischer Franz, 01.03.1911, Obersturmf., -, -, 03.09.1939, VB (Stolec)

Fischer Franz, 01.03.1911, Ob. Sturmf., 3. Kp./SS-Rgt. AH, SS-Verf. Tr., 03.09.1939 (Stolec), VB, www.kvhelsa.cz

/ Peter

[Stauffenberg II]

But, Jürgen - if it comes to Julius Büsing for example - why don't you want to add him to the Master List? What still remains unclear? I already explained that Laski - Sierakow is a location in Kampinoska Forest and a battle took place there in the second half of Septembr of 1939. He is clearly listed by VB as killed in 09.1939 near Laski - Sierakow.

The same refers to Rademacher (Bischdorf = Biskupice in Polish) and Weyrauch, who was killed or died in or near Samter (Szamotuly) on 28 IX, which clearly shows that it is related to the German military operations in Poland.

Best regards!
Peter

Hi Domen121,

I would keep them in research section until we have any substantial info to shift them. As already pointed out earlier the data entry of Büsing seems to be missing some key data for some reasons and Samter on 28.09.1939 was not military operations area (maybe an accident, maybe illness?).

Regards!
Jürgen

[Stauffenberg II]

Interesting topic regarding Untersturmf./Unterscharf. Janssen. The question is if (1) Volksbund is right or (2) the website.

I would like to ask Jan-Hendrik if he could resolve if Janssen indeed was Untersturmf. rather than Unterscharf. consulting his officer source. Jan-Hendrik could you please be so kind to look him up?

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Hi Jürgen!,

Interesting topic regarding Untersturmf./Unterscharf. Janssen. The question is if (1) Volksbund is right or (2) the website.

I would like to ask Jan-Hendrik if he could resolve if Janssen indeed was Untersturmf. rather than Unterscharf. consulting his officer source. Jan-Hendrik could you please be so kind to look him up?

Ok, we can ask Jan-Hendrik. I have even one more question regarding another SS officer. Namely:

Schneider Karl, 21.01.1916, Untersturmf., -, -, 13.09.1939 (Ostrow [Mazowiecka]), VB

What was his unit? Probably Panzerdivision "Kempf" - am I right?

And one more question - where was battalion SS "Dresden" fighting in September / October of 1939?

and Samter on 28.09.1939 was not military operations area (maybe an accident, maybe illness?).

How do you know that it was not military operations area? It was in Poland and divisions which were entering it were part of the invading army - so it was a military operations area. Another problem is if there were any fights there or not. We list also officers of Luftwaffe who died in accidents (as these accidents happened during combat missions against Polish armed forces) and we list also German officers who died from friendly fire (from the same reason) - so in my opinion we should list him too. And we cannot judge beyond any doubt if there were any fights near Samter or not, because I even quoted a German source (article in the newspaper) which says about "Polish bands" fighting in Greater Poland. It is also a fact that before 28.09.1939 (on that day it was already in German hands * - but it doesn't mean that there were no "Polish bands" there any longer) some parts of Greater Poland were defended even after the withdrawal of Army "Poznan" - e.g. Kleck (7 - 9 IX), Charbowo (9 IX), Gniezno (11 IX), Polska Wies (8 IX), Żydowo (10 IX), etc. That's why in my opinion we can add him to the Master List. I haven't found any source which would tell us something about events which happened in Samter in September of 1939 yet. Maybe something on it will appear here:

This is the thread about last Polish regular units in Oct. 1939 - Spring 1940 - "Last regular units - 1939":

http://www.dws.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=123754

Just one example from the above thread - some of the cut-off by Guderian in early September groups of soldiers from 50th Infantry Regiment were fighting near Bydgoszcz (in the Pomerelian Corridor) until mid October of 1939.

* The last city of Greater Poland - Kolo - was captured not before 19.09.1939.

I would keep them in research section until we have any substantial info to shift them.

Ok, despite my above opinion, I can agree with you at this point. I'm only afraid that it might be hard to get any further info on them. Maybe further research on them will bring some results, although I'm not sure what is unclear if it comes to Busing. That he died in battle is indubious, he is listed near Laski-Sierakow. Just his unit is unknown.

But in many other cases from the Master List units are unknown too, so I see no obstacles to add him there.

PS:

Good news, Krzysiek from forum DWS told me that he has got a microfilmed document of 3rd Army which lists 88 KIA officers from 3rd Army. The fact is that we already have got H. Gru. Nord list and if I counted correctly, we have got much more than 88 because 143 - 146 officers from 3rd Army listed in our Master List (146 if SS Heimwehr Danzig was subordinated to 3rd Army - I'm not sure about that), but maybe some new surnames will appear from this microfilm?

Regards!
Peter

[Stauffenberg II]

Spot on!

Jan-Hendriks officers list confirms that VB is mistakenly giving Unterscharf. and Untersturm. in fact is correct:

Janßen, Karl-Wilhelm
geb. 8. 7.17 in Oldenburg
gef. 14. 9.39 b. SOCHACZEW
10.36 SS-Mann bei der 12./Sta.”Germania”
9.39 SS-Ustuf. bei der 3./LSSAH

So I ask to add Janssen (Janßen) as given by Domen121:
Janssen (Janßen) Karl-Wilhelm, 08.07.1917, Untersturmf. (VB fälschlich Unterscharf.), 3. Kp./SS-Rgt. AH, SS-VT, 14.09.1939 (Sochaczew), VB, www.kvhelsa.cz

and please add Domen121´s replacement entry given below which includes the unit:

Fischer Franz, 01.03.1911, Ob. Sturmf., 3. Kp./SS-Rgt. AH, SS-Verf. Tr., 03.09.1939 (Stolec), VB, www.kvhelsa.cz

[Bernd R]

The master list is updated. New : 1 - new total : 898 / +107

I've done the edit of the following entries, too (recent findings and clarifications) :

Hofmann (od. gem. VB u. Gefallenenblatt Hoffmann) Eberhard, 04.01.1914, Oblt., 6./Pz.Lehr-Rgt. [=Pz.Lehr-Abt.] = verst. Pz.Lehr-Abt. unterstellt als III. Abt. dem Pz. R. 5, 3. Pz. Div., 18.09.1939 (b. Lowcza), VB, H. Gru. Nord, per Gefallenenblatt 6./Pz.Lehr-Rgt.

31. ID :

von Stamford Hans, 27.10.1893, Maj., Kdr. I. Abt./A. R. 31, 31. Div., 18.09.1939 (i. Pusza Wald nördl. Gorki), VB, StB 1938, arcticle about A. R. 31 in Poland '39 in Halberstädter Zeitung (1939 or 40)

and all the adds of locations per VB we had for - G - , - H - , and - Z - .

/ Bernd

[chris44]

some of the graves of mentioned officers
wounded in poland.... buried somewhere else

Ernst Falkenhagen
Wien Zentralfriedhof Ehrenteil Gruppe 97 Block 1 Reihe 1 Grab 11

Walter Polt
Wien Zentralfriedhof Ehrenteil Gruppe 97 Block 1 Reihe 1 Grab 3

Otto Valicek
Wien Zentralfriedhof Ehrenteil Gruppe 97 Block 6 Reihe 1 Grab 40

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Source: Polish National Digital Library:

From "Polska Zbrojna" newspaper, No. 242 A from 01.09.1939 (but ofc. edited yet before WW2 started), page 2:

http://www.polona.pl/dlibra/doccontent2 ... 40&lang=pl

Translation:

"Flights in the nearbyhood of Gdynia are dangerous for German pilots

Cpt. pil. Kerstner from Westfalen was killed

We get to know from German obituaries hung out on the walls in Gdansk, that "captain pilot Kerstner Wilhelm from Westfalen died at his post". Undoubtedly this refers to the pilot of one of German planes which crossed the Polish border and were fired at by Polish AA batteries. This fact irrefutably demonstrates, despite untrue evasions of German propaganda, press and especially radio, that not passenger planes but combat airplanes, belonging to the Air Force of the Third Reich, are violating the Polish border and were fired at by Polish AA artillery."

I suppose that this information is untrue, but - anyway - interesting. Certainly worth further researching.

PS:

He is not listed by Volksbund (in general VB lists only 7 persons with surname Kerstner for the whole WW2 and the following period, because 4 of them are listed as died after the end of WW2 - was it really such a rare surname?).

---------------------------------------

And here something which might be interesting:

http://www.polona.pl/dlibra/collectiond ... ?dirids=40

On the occasion of the 70th Anniversary of the outbreak of World War II and through the collection September 1939, the National Library is making available to the public digital copies of newspapers, proclamations, flyers and other documents published in Poland between the end of August until early October of 1939. In the early days of the war, when the country was under constant attack, with the civil population dispersed and cut off from their homes, the press and leaflets served very often as the only source of information. The newspapers and printed material presented in the collection September 1939, many of which have never been presented before, will therefore surely serve as a source of invaluable information complementing historical knowledge of that period not only for historians but for everyone interested in the events and the atmosphere of the September Campaign.

To browse digital documents click "Publications list" on the left-hand side menu.

Number of publications in collection: 359

[Balsi]

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

According to this article about the battle of Kolbuszowa (08.09.1939 - 09.09.1939):

http://www.biblioteka.kolbuszowa.pl/kbi ... etyn10.pdf

This officer:

Hesse Siegfried, 03.08.1916, Lt. d. R., 1./Pz. Abw. Abt. 38, 2. Pz. Div., 09.09.1939 (Kolbuszowa), VB, Geschichte der 2. Panzerdivision

Was not Leutnant but Oberleutnant.

[Bernd R]

[...]
I always tend to forget this and it is confusing really with the early Panzer-Lehr. Looked up again to be sure and here is the story / lineage :

Per 7 July 1939 the Panzer-Lehr-Regiment was formed with
Stab
Panzer-Lehr-Abteilung
Panzerabwehr-Lehr-Abteilung
II.(mot.)/Infanterie-Lehr-Regiment Döberitz

source: Ritgen, Panzertruppenschulen , page 13
http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:tM ... clnk&gl=de

[...]

15.04.1939 - 01.02.1940 O Wilhelm Conze (during the Polish Campaign also Kdr. (m.F.b.) Pz.Rgt. 5 – 01.09. – 14.10.1939)

A short supplement to this. I found another source, which is a confirmation for the essentials, but has another date of formation.
Rudolf Absolon, Die Wehrmacht im Dritten Reich , Band IV 5. Februar 1938 - 31. August 1939 , (Schriften des Bundesarchivs), page 175 ; [taken from original source : HM 1939, S. 235]

Panzer-Lehr-Regiment , formed on 15 April 1939 , with
Stab
- mit Nachrichtenzug , leichter Panzerzug , Musikkorps
Panzer-Lehr-Abteilung
Schützen-Lehr-Bataillon
Panzerabwehr-Lehr-Abteilung

So, I would rely on the "Heeresmitteilungen". And, the start of command date of Oberst Conze is the same like the formation date ! So, I take it, * 15.04.1939 has to be correct.

/ Bernd

[Piotr Kapuscinski]

Hi Bernd,

Maybe we have one new officer:

Oberst Freiherr von Wachtmeister, commandant X C in Lübeck, lost his son during the Polish Campaign in 1939.

Probably his son was an officer, but he is not listed by Volksbund.

But I think that it shouldn't be so hard to check, von Wachtmeister was important and had a rare surname.