Poland 1939: KIA German officers

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
Jan-Hendrik
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 06 Jun 2008 08:30

Gentlemen, I have an Major Nelke, Chef 2.Bttr./RAA 1 of 1. KavBrg. as 1st KIA of this Brigade on the very first day of the campaign, but cannot find a first name of him or an entry at the Volksbund...he is listet both in the official Offiziersverluste-Overview and the unit history of v.Senger und Etterlin jr....who can help?

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 13 Jun 2008 09:25

Another one:

A Hauptmann Metzsch, propably AR 102

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Rian
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Rian » 25 Jun 2008 13:09

I repeat my question: "Where was killed oberst FRIEDRICH MÜHLMANN in November 1939????" Polish Campaign was ended in early OCTOBER!! Mayby is wrong details about Friedrich Muhlmann death.

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Hauptmann v.d. Groeben, O1., 5. Pz Div.

Post by jjmcgr » 25 Jun 2008 22:21

Does anyone know anything about the death of Hauptmann von der Groeben, the O1 [assistant G3] of the 5th Panzer Division, 4 September 1939. He may be the first General Staff Corps officer killed in the war.

Officially he was not a GSO. He was a member of the Kriegsakademie 1938 class and had a date of rank of 1.1.39 (77). By seniority he ranked 281 out of the 303 officers in General Staff training at the start of the war. These 303 officers were attached to the General Staff corps at the start of the war. If he had survived, v. d. Groeben would have undoubtedly been assigned to the GS corps before the start of the French campaign as were almost all of his peers and been made a Id (G4) of a division. The officer directly below him on the list, Gerstung, was an Oberst by 1943 and KIA while the Ia (G3) of the 6th Infantry Division. The officer directly above him on the list, Hans-Joachim Bartsch, ended the war as an Oberstleutnant and Ia of the 344th ID.

Any information on this officer will be greatly appreciated. He is not the same as Peter v.d. Groeben who ended the war as a Generalmajor and was the ID of Army Group North in the Polish Campaign in 1939.

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Bernd R
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Bernd R » 28 Jun 2008 21:07

jjmcgr,

the Hauptmann von der Groeben you are looking for should be
Werner von der Groeben
who appears in "Gedenkbuch des deutschen Adels", 1967 C.A.Starke Verlag, Limburg/Lahn, pages 112-113
* Bückeburg 14. 7. 1911, KIA Rajsko bei Oswiecim, Polen, 4. 9. 1939, Hauptmann in einer Panzerdivision, kommandiert zum Stabe

taken (see excerpt there also) from this "von der Groeben" thread we had
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=102166&hilit=von+der+Groeben

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Bernd R
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Bernd R » 28 Jun 2008 21:33

Rian wrote:I repeat my question: "Where was killed oberst FRIEDRICH MÜHLMANN in November 1939????" Polish Campaign was ended in early OCTOBER!! Mayby is wrong details about Friedrich Muhlmann death.

Rian,

well, this is the "Volksbund" [Deutsche Kriegsgräberfürsorge e.V.] entry
http://www.volksbund.de/ , basically reliable
Nachname: Mühlmann
Vorname: Friedrich
Dienstgrad: Oberst
Geburtsdatum: 30.08.1890
Geburtsort: Metz
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 03.11.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Rela. II Stettin


Date and place of death [Reservelazarett II ] confirmed by 123guderian
Gest.03.11.1939 im Lazarett Stettin an verwundung

died from wounds.
So, it is the question, if "seriously wounded on 1 Nov 1939" is a typo perhaps (-> 01.10. ?)
01.11.1939 schwer verwundet

123guderian was asked for sources but VERY unfortunately is not active at the moment. :cry:

Bernd

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by jjmcgr » 30 Jun 2008 13:10

Thanks Bernd.
Werner is obviously the v.d. Goeben who was probably the first general staff officer (or trainee as he technically still was) killed in the war.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 29 Jul 2008 16:49

Another one:

OTL Dolleschal, III./AR 11 KIA 14.9


Just saw my mistake, I spelled him wrong 8O

It is OTL Dolleschall!

Officers losses of 10.PD (KIA):

- Lt. d.R. Achler/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Hptm. Dr.Dudensing/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. Herrmann/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. Herwig/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. von Hohendorff/ I./AufklRgt. 8 am ??.??.??
- Lt. d.R. Kothe/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. Kreht/ I./AufklRgt. 8 am ??.??.??
- Lt. d.R. Leyhe/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. d.R. Otto/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- OLt. Pfalzgraf/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- OLt. Semerak/ PR 8 am ??.??.??
- Hptm. Simons/ IR 86 am ??.??.??

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Heimatschuss » 29 Jul 2008 22:44

Hallo Jan-Hendrik,

all information courtesy of www.volksbund.de :)

Nachname: Achler
Vorname: Heinrich Andreas Wilh.
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant der Reserve
Geburtsdatum: 20.10.1901
Geburtsort: Sinna
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 16.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: b.Brest-Litowsk/SU


Nachname: Dr. Dudensing
Vorname: Herbert Franz
Dienstgrad: Hauptmann
Geburtsdatum: 03.08.1898
Geburtsort: Zwickau
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 16.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Brest-Litowsk


Nachname: Herrmann
Vorname: Helmut
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 03.03.1915
Geburtsort: Mittweida
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 16.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Brest-Litowsk
or
Nachname: Herrmann
Vorname: Horst
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 14.10.1914
Geburtsort: Berlin-Kladow
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 07.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Udorz, südl.Poddorra
or (unlikely)
Nachname: Herrmann
Vorname: Walter
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 24.02.1917
Geburtsort: Podelwitz
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 27.12.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Gastlingen


Nachname: von Hohendorff
Vorname: Gero Ernst Dorian Martin
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 18.03.1916
Geburtsort: Golding
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 07.09.1939
Todes/Vermisstenort: vor Lomza / Pol.


Nachname: Kothe
Vorname: Hans Joachim
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 31.12.1916
Geburtsort: Magdeburg
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 05.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Sanko.mot.2/81
H.V.Pl. Schloß-Niedciece
or
Nachname: Kothe
Vorname: Heinrich
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 31.12.1915
Geburtsort: Berlin-Charlottenburg
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 01.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Zwangsbruch


Nachname: Kreth
Vorname: Joachim
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 09.05.1917
Geburtsort: Berlin
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 16.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Brest-Litowsk


Nachname: Leyhe
Vorname: Heinrich
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant der Reserve
Geburtsdatum: 18.09.1905
Geburtsort: Twiste
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 16.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Brest-Litowsk


Nachname: Otto
Vorname: Ewald
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 11.04.1914
Geburtsort: Mühlhausen
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 14.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Brest.Litowsk
or
Nachname: Otto
Vorname: Peter
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 07.03.1916
Geburtsort: Mannheim
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 03.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: a.d.Weg zum Laz. Kreuzburg/O.S.


Nachname: Pfalzgraf
Vorname: Rolf-Hasso
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 18.08.1914
Geburtsort: Kassel
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 12.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: nordöstl. Czyzewo


Nachname: Semerak
Vorname: Nikolaus
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 20.08.1911
Geburtsort: Halberstadt
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 12.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Brest-Litowsk


Nachname: Simons
Vorname: Ernst
Dienstgrad: Hauptmann
Geburtsdatum: 27.02.1904
Geburtsort: Münster
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 09.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Kurpiki

Best regards and good luck
Torsten

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 30 Jul 2008 05:33

Torsten: vielen Dank!! :D

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crolick
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Re:

Post by crolick » 30 Jul 2008 15:15

Jan-Hendrik wrote:NARA T311 R198, there you find all officers losses (KIA, WIA and MIA) for HGr. Nord per 27.9.39...or you drop me your E-Mail-Addy...

Jan-Hendrik
Dear Jan-Hendrik,

is it possible to track down officer taken PoW during Polish War in 1939 (not necessarily KIA/WIA/MIA)? I have one account (which may be unreliable) that German major was taken PoW during battle for Reda (near Gdynia) and I would like to know if it is true. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Regards,
Andrzej

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 04 Aug 2008 08:44

I would be neccessary to know his name/ unit :wink:

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crolick
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by crolick » 07 Aug 2008 16:34

Jan-Hendrik wrote:I would be neccessary to know his name/ unit :wink:

Jan-Hendrik
Dear Jan-Hendrik,

this is problem with all those 'urban-myths' - they do not give any details (else they would be easily verifiable :P )

Anyway I presume he was from Grenzschutz-Abschnitts-Kommando 1 which included:
Grenzschutz-Abschnitts-Kommando 1 (General der Flieger Leonard von Kaupisch)
- 207 ID (Gen.Maj. von Tiedemann)
-- 322 IR (Mjr. von Kröcher)
-- 368 IR (Gen.Maj. von Oesterreich)
-- 374 IR (Oberst Klemm)

-- 32 Grenzwache (Oberstlt. Bothmer)
-- 42 Grenzwache (Oberstlt. Wuth)
-- 5 KR (Oberstlt. Diener)

My bet would be 32 Grenzwache or 322 IR but please keep in mind that this is just my speculation.


Best wishes,
Andrzej

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 07 Aug 2008 18:22

Well, I will try to have a look into the unit history of 207./281.ID next weekend..maybe I am able to trace down something :D

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crolick
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by crolick » 15 Aug 2008 10:31

Jan-Hendrik wrote:Well, I will try to have a look into the unit history of 207./281.ID next weekend..maybe I am able to trace down something :D

Jan-Hendrik
Hello Jan-Hendrik,

any luck?! :wink:

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