Poland 1939: KIA German officers

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Rian
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Rian » 06 Sep 2008 19:35

died from wounds.
So, it is the question, if "seriously wounded on 1 Nov 1939" is a typo perhaps (-> 01.10. ?)
01.11.1939 schwer verwundet
123guderian was asked for sources but VERY unfortunately is not active at the moment.


OK.

Do You have any information about commanding officer of 44 IR - Maj. Krawutschke???? On wikipedia is information about this officer:
"the German 44th Regiment almost ceased to exist. Its commanding officer, Maj. Krawutschke, committed suicide." - 44 IR was defeated 11/12 sept. 1939 in battle of Kaluszyn.
It's true information??

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 06 Sep 2008 20:10

I have the following officers for IR 44 of 11.ID that were KIA in 1939:

Lt. d.Res. v.Alt-Stutterheim III./IR 44 +12.9.39
Olt.d. Res. Ameling 7./IR 44 +12.9.39
Hptm. v.d.Groeben 10./IR 44 +12.9.39
Lt. Lemke 13./IR 44 +3.9.39
Lt. Schmidt 7./IR 44 +12.9.39
Olt.d.Res. Zimmermann 7./IR 44 +12.9.44

A Major Krawutschke is not mentioned in the officers casuality list of HGr. Nord...

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Rian
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Rian » 14 Sep 2008 12:09

General von Fritsch was not only german general who was KIA during September Campaign. Another one was Generalmajor der Polizei Wilhelm Fritz von Roettig (KIA 10 IX)

Ste
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Ste » 15 Sep 2008 12:05

I can add this name: Hauptmann Friedrich Albrecht, born on 19.10.88 on Leipzig and death on 11.9.39 at Mszczonow...I don't know the unit,maybe could he came from the 4th Panzer Divison?

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Ste » 20 Sep 2008 13:59

And I also could add this other one I found:

Nachname: Müller-Haeseler
Vorname: Martin Karl Hugo
Dienstgrad: Major
Geburtsdatum: 02.08.1897
Geburtsort: Halle
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 03.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: /

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by goolie » 15 Nov 2008 20:10

I found one mor german Officer who was killed in polen 1939:

Nachname: Freiherr von und zu Egloffstein
Vorname: Leonhard
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 01.04.1915
Geburtsort: Karlsruhe
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 22.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Mosty-Wielkie

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Rian
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Rian » 18 Nov 2008 23:35

Near my town - Czarnków - at 3rd September was killed one capitan from Grenzchutz. But I don't know any detailed sources about him.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Peter K » 06 Dec 2008 11:26

XX.XX.1939: Oberst von Ditfurth (Wilhelm-Dietrich), Kdr. S. R. 9


More info on his death:

Commander of Kavallerie-Schützen-Regiment 9 - Oberst Wilhelm Dietrich von Ditfurth - KIA during the night from 8th to 9th of September in the battle of Iłża, during the Polish attack of I./9. IR, I./7. IR, two batteries of 3. light AR (but only two guns took part in that combat due to difficulties with transport), supported by 4 AFVs from 51. armoured dyon - while defending headquarters of his regiment (located in the house of Godziszowie family in village Piłatka).

When the Poles overcame the defensive lines of the regiment, they started to advance towards the regimental headquarters. Von Ditfurth noticed withdrawing German soldiers, but he didn't withdraw. When the enemy started to come closer, he took a rifle and started to shoot towards attacking Polish infantry. But after a moment he was badly wounded in his arm - then he took his pistol and tried to rouse his men into combat - he tried to fight and stop the enemy, soon he received a headshot (according to some other sources it was a series from machine gun). Regimental headquarters were overran and the Poles advanced further towards the western edge of the village.

Photo showing the place where Wilhelm Dietrich von Ditfurth was KIA after the battle:

Image

Another German car destroyed near the regimental headquarters:

Image

Destroyed German motorcycle and burned corpse of fallen German motorcyclist:

Image

Photos come from this site:

http://strzelcy-kresowi.pl/index.php?op ... &Itemid=52
Last edited by Peter K on 06 Dec 2008 16:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Peter K » 06 Dec 2008 15:44

Do You have any information about commanding officer of 44 IR - Maj. Krawutschke???? On wikipedia is information about this officer:

"the German 44th Regiment almost ceased to exist. Its commanding officer, Maj. Krawutschke, committed suicide." - 44 IR was defeated 11/12 sept. 1939 in battle of Kaluszyn.

It's true information??


A Major Krawutschke is not mentioned in the officers casuality list of HGr. Nord...


NARA T311 R198, there you find all officers losses (KIA, WIA and MIA) for HGr. Nord per 27.9.39...or you drop me your E-Mail-Addy...

Jan-Hendrik


On 12th of September Major Sudau took over command over the Infanterie-Regiment 44 - and was commanding it at least until the end of the Polish Campaign...

But I didn't manage to find any other information - except those which were provided by Rian - about what happened to its previous commander - Major Krawutschke.

===============

Btw:

A Major Krawutschke is not mentioned in the officers casuality list of HGr. Nord...

NARA T311 R198, there you find all officers losses (KIA, WIA and MIA) for HGr. Nord per 27.9.39...or you drop me your E-Mail-Addy...


Maybe you checked it in a wrong place ?

Maybe we should search for him in the RIA - "retired in action" - officers list ? :D

Maybe he just "retired" in the middle of the battle of Kałuszyn ? - as far as I know there are sometimes such "cases" in the German documents - "lead poisoning" - etc. - he just had got problems with his health - "lead poisoning", etc. - it happens - and on the battlefield it is sometimes much easier to "catch" - hmmm... - "something serious". :lol:

Yes - I think that he retired in the middle of the battle and went back home... It is probably only a coincidence that he used to live in a coffin after he had retired.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 06 Dec 2008 17:08

Maybe you seem not to know what we are talking about, or to which document I referred. But that does not surprise me anymore :roll:


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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Peter K » 06 Dec 2008 17:55

I know what are you talking about and to which document you refer - but I also know that Major Sudau became the commander of Infanterie-Regiment 44. on 12th of September 1939 - and was commanding it at least until the end of the Polish Campaign. Before that Major Krawutschke was the commander of this regiment. Does "your" document tell us what happened with him - if it does not mention that he was KIA - as other sources do? What was the reason why Major Krawutschke stopped to be the commander of the regiment during that intense battle?

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Peter K » 06 Dec 2008 18:16

Does anyone know anything about the death of Hauptmann von der Groeben, the O1 [assistant G3] of the 5th Panzer Division, 4 September 1939. He may be the first General Staff Corps officer killed in the war.


Thanks Bernd.
Werner is obviously the v.d. Goeben who was probably the first general staff officer (or trainee as he technically still was) killed in the war.


He was KIA during the combat of Rajsko (which was part of the battle of Pszczyna).

Also Hauptmann Mösl - commander of staff quarters - was KIA in the same combat, on 4th of September.

On 1st of September Oberst Haarde (also from 5. Panzer-Division - commander of 8. Panzer-Brigade) was heavily wounded by Polish artillery fire - what happened with him later? - did he die of wounds?

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 06 Dec 2008 19:09

Does "your" document tell us what happened with him - if it does not mention that he was KIA - as other sources do?


No. It does not as this OKH document only referrs to to Officers of units belonging the HGr. Nord during polish campaign that were KIA,MIA or WIA. Not "mine", but a OKH document for internal use :roll:

as other sources do?


Which ones? I have still seen none in this thread? And if yes, on which primary sources do they base on? Or rather hearsay, rumours etc? :roll:

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by histan » 06 Dec 2008 19:21

From notes on Haarde HPA file

10.11.1938 Kdr 8 Pz Bde
02.09.1939 FR
08.10.1939 Kdr 8 Pz Bde

Regards

John

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Peter K » 06 Dec 2008 22:17

From notes on Haarde HPA file

10.11.1938 Kdr 8 Pz Bde
02.09.1939 FR
08.10.1939 Kdr 8 Pz Bde

Regards

John


So it seems that he managed to pull through.

If it comes to Major Krawutschke - he stopped commanding his regiment on 11th or on 12th of September - and was replaced by Major Sudau - I still wonder why / what happened to him - I still didn't manage to find an answer / find anything which is reffering to it (except the info which was given by Rian).

I hope someone did / will.

Which ones?


As I already wrote - only those given by Rian.

But how can you explain the fact that on 12th of September Major Sudau took over command over the regiment?

What happened to Major Krawutschke?

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