Poland 1939: KIA German officers

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#706

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 05 Apr 2009, 17:27

Waffen-SS.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#707

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 05 Apr 2009, 17:28

I doubt that this SS unit destroyed in Maciejowice on 01.10.1939 was a Waffen-SS unit.

That's why he may not be listed in this Führerliste.


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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#708

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 05 Apr 2009, 17:34

Which "other" SS-units do you suspect to have been there on 1st October? Or isn't it rather more possible that the SS simply existed in the phantasy of the writer?? As far as I remember you even din#T found it necceesary to mention any sources..

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#709

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 05 Apr 2009, 17:44

Which "other" SS-units do you suspect to have been there on 1st October?
First of all - Waffen-SS - this name was created in 1940 as far as I know.

In 1939 there were:

SS-Verfügungstruppen
SS-Totenkopfverbande
SS-Junkerschulen
Allgemeine SS

Einsatzgruppen were also consisting of SS members and were commanded by SS officers.

Maciejowice is located south of Warsaw (80 kilometres from Warsaw), west of the Vistula river - I don't think that there were any SS-Verfügungstruppen units there on 01.10.1939.

Combat took place near the village Wola Chodkowska, which is located near Maciejowice.
As far as I remember you even didn't found it necceesary to mention any sources.
:
the collection of Polish war-time 1939 accounts gathered by famous Polish journalist Melchior Wankowicz during the war - on emigration - and quoted in his book titled "Wrzesien Zagwiacy".
Page 327.

Every stricte scientific work about Hubal also mentions this combat.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#710

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 05 Apr 2009, 23:10

What is his rank?:

http://www.hood.de/auction/33065575/ste ... en-top.htm

Image

And here two photos from Ebay.de:

"Polen , Gräber in Brest Litovsk":

Image

"Polen , Grab Kühlke in Brest Litowsk":

Kühlke is his surname - officer?:

Image

Here some German graves - 1939:

http://odkrywca.pl/wrzesien-1939-zdjeci ... tml#650461

Rawa Ruska (most probably 2. Panzer-Division):

Image

Oleszyce:

Image

And here three KIA in Poland - including two with no ranks given - does VB say anything about their ranks?:

http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/dkm_deuts ... u2_bay.htm

Högerle and Punz.

And here one more officer to research:

http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/2009/jaeg ... k2_bae.htm

Obltnt. Frenzel Günther - Todesdatum: 1939.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#711

Post by Stauffenberg II » 07 Apr 2009, 20:36

Hi Bernd, just a short update. Please exchange the old against the new one. The assumption that this is the son of Gen. Oberst Adam is now confirmed by the GFM Ritter von Leeb diary.

Adam Werner, 14.10.1918, Lt., A. A. 3, 3. Pz. Div., 02.09.1939 (Poledno), VB (Grablage: Berlin), H. Gru. Nord, 2. Sohn v. Gen. Oberst Adam (Leeb: Tagebuchaufzeichnungen und Lagebeurteilungen aus zwei Weltkriegen, S. 177)

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#712

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 07 Apr 2009, 20:50

Hi Jurgen,
Master List wrote:Otto Ewald, 11.04.1914, Lt. d. R., I. R. [mot.] 86, 10. Pz. Div., 14.09.1939, VB, H. Gru. Nord
And here is his Grabfoto - from ebay.de:

Image

And here probably the same cemetery (but different auction) - also from ebay:

Image

Link:

http://cgi.ebay.de/6-Grabkreuze-in-Pole ... 240%3A1318

And I also have got one more officer KIA:

Chaplain (chaplain = captain; at least in Polish Armed Forces) Dr. Bunzel from Gustav-Adolf-Kirche in Breslau:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko%C5%9Bci ... %C5%82awiu

He was KIA on 16.09.1939 during the battle of Bzura.
"Polen , Grab Kühlke in Brest Litowsk":

Kühlke is his surname - officer?:
According to VB he was "just" a Schütze.
Högerle and Punz.
According to VB he was "just" a Jäger - KIA Hule b.Grodek [Jagiellonski]. And Punz was "just" an Oberjäger - KIA on 15.09.1939 in Drohobycz (!! 8O).

And Johann Eder was "just" a Pionier.
Hammes (gem. VB Hammer) Karl, 25.03.1896, Maj., Kdr. 1./ZG 1, Luftw., 06.09.1939 (b. Wojcieszyn), VB, Marius Emmerling "Luftwaffe nad Polska“
And his Grabfoto:

Image

Regards!
Peter

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#713

Post by Bernd R » 08 Apr 2009, 08:37

Lt. Werner Adam edited. Informative and valuable details, thanks Jürgen ! A few of the men listed are already transfered to the "Notable members" sections of some Axis History Factbook unit pages (Lt. Heinrich von Weizsäcker e.g.). A multiple output of this project which adds further details to the units and provides more detailed info for the readers as well.

regards
Bernd

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#714

Post by Bernd R » 08 Apr 2009, 08:55

- new - (VB)
Nachname: Krüger
Vorname: Gerhard
Dienstgrad: Leutnant der Reserve
Geburtsdatum: 23.10.1909
Geburtsort: Allerheiligen
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 12.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Biala Gora
Nachname: Krystek
Vorname: Paul
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 25.11.1903
Geburtsort: Leipzig
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 23.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Antoniowka
Nachname: Kubler
Vorname: Harry
Dienstgrad: Oberzahlmeister
Geburtsdatum: 10.07.1914
Geburtsort: Fürstenwalde
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 12.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Gorzkiewki
and two not 100% clear at first glance / for further research :
Nachname: Kloß
Vorname: Hermann
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 29.08.1884
Geburtsort: Fröbel
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 17.11.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Lublin Res. Kgslaz. mot. 531
Nachname: Kerckloff
Vorname: Clemens
Dienstgrad: Oberstleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 23.05.1864
Geburtsort: Osnabrück
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 13.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort:

Clemens Kerckloff ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Wiesbaden-Alt Südfriedhof (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) .
Endgrablage: Grab 18B
OTL Kerckloff is added for completion and possibly it can be clarified easily that he wasn't active in the Polish Campaign anymore. One of the oldest officers I've seen ever (estimated the birth date is correct). Beside the hypothesis that his death was caused by natural reasons - Wiesbaden speaks for a West connection (WK XII).

/ Bernd

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#715

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 08 Apr 2009, 11:22

I noticed that we have got many officers KIA near Antoniowka.

The battle was fought between 22.09.1939 and 23.09.1939 by 1st Polish Legionary Infantry Division under command of general Wincenty Kowalski and 8th German Infanterie-Division - as part of the battle of Tomaszow Lubelski.

Edit:

In fact, this is not necessary in this thread, so I removed it.
Last edited by Piotr Kapuscinski on 08 Apr 2009, 20:19, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#716

Post by Bernd R » 08 Apr 2009, 19:52

- new - (VB) / K is done
Nachname: Köster
Vorname: Wilhelm
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 30.08.1915
Geburtsort: Widungen
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 17.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Fela 31 Kloster Kostowiec
Nachname: Koloska
Vorname: Kurt
Dienstgrad: Zahlmeister
Geburtsdatum: 12.10.1905
Geburtsort: Bergenau
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 17.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort:

Kurt Koloska konnte im Rahmen unserer Umbettungsarbeiten nicht geborgen werden.

Die vorgesehene Überführung zum Sammelfriedhof in Joachimow-Mogily (Polen) war somit leider nicht möglich.
Sein Name wird im Gedenkbuch des Friedhofes verzeichnet.
Nachname: Kuntzen
Vorname: Kurt
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 05.05.1915
Geburtsort: Berlin
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 07.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: bei Podgorze
Nachname: Kynast
Vorname: Horst Werner
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 20.03.1919
Geburtsort: Ratibor
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 05.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Podzar b.Sezczerkow
Nachname: Seidler
Vorname: Karl-Heinz
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 28.06.1914
Geburtsort: Stade
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 07.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: San.Kp.1/30 Deutsch Krepa
Nachname: Seifert
Vorname: Horst
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 15.02.1914
Geburtsort: Chemnitz
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 12.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Matyldzin
/ Bernd

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#717

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 08 Apr 2009, 21:13

Maybe let's summ up which letters are done and which combinations of other letters are done?

Done letters are:

A, I, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, T, U, V, W, Z / and R / edit by Bernd R

Anything more?

Btw:

These guys are still to be added:

Büsing Julius, -, Lt., -, -, [19].09.1939 (Laski-Sierakow), VB
Pisarski Wilhelm, -, SA-Obersturmbannführer, Kdr. Kampfgruppe Pisarski, Bataillon Ebbinghaus, 01.09.1939 (Siemianowice Slaskie), Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv + many other sources
Weyrauch Wolfgang, 23.03.1882, Maj., -, -, 28.09.1939 (Samter), VB
Kubitz, -, Lt., Adj. III. / I. R. 49, 28. Div., 02.09.1939 (Zwakow), Werner Flack, "Wir marschieren für das Reich. Deutsche Jugend im Kampferlebnis des polnischen Feldzuges", Stalling Verlag, Oldenburg, 1940
Dr. Bunzel, -, Kaplan (Gustav-Adolf-Kirche in Breslau), -, -, 16.09.1939 (Bzura), Gustav-Adolf-Kirche in Breslau

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#718

Post by Stauffenberg II » 08 Apr 2009, 22:48

Domen121 wrote:
These guys are still to be added:

BüsingJulius, -, Lt., -, -, [19].09.1939 (Laski-Sierakow), VB [3.1]
Pisarski Wilhelm, -, SA-Obersturmbannführer, Kdr. Kampfgruppe Pisarski, Bataillon Ebbinghaus, 01.09.1939 (Siemianowice Slaskie), Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv + many other sources [3.1]
Weyrauch Wolfgang, 23.03.1882, Maj., -, -, 28.09.1939 (Samter), VB
Kubitz, -, Lt., Adj. III. / I. R. 49, 28. Div., 02.09.1939 (Zwakow), Werner Flack, "Wir marschieren für das Reich. Deutsche Jugend im Kampferlebnis des polnischen Feldzuges", Stalling Verlag, Oldenburg, 1940 [3.1]
Dr. Bunzel, -, Kaplan (Gustav-Adolf-Kirche in Breslau), -, -, 16.09.1939 (Bzura), Gustav-Adolf-Kirche in Breslau
Yes all to research section, Bunzel and Weyrauch apart, who are already listed and:
Kloß Hermann, 29.08.1884, Oblt., -, -, 17.11.1939 (Lublin Res. Kr. Laz. mot. 531), VB [3.3]

Moreover thanks to Njorl and Bernd the new ones:

Kellner Johannes, 11.10.1899, Oblt. d. R., -, -, 14.09.1939 (Lentschütz), VB
Keßler Wolfgang, 24.04.1916, Lt. d. R., -, -, 09.09.1939 (Ochota), VB
Kiel Fritz, 12.12.1916, Lt., -, -, 10.09.1939 (Sierpow pow. Leczyca), VB
Koloska Kurt, 12.10.1905, Zahlm., -, -, 17.09.1939, VB
Krüger Gerhard, 23.10.1909, Lt. d. R., -, -, 12.09.1939 (Biala Gora), VB
Krystek Paul, 25.11.1903, Lt., -, -, 23.09.1939 (Antoniowka), VB
Kubler Harry, 10.07.1914, Oberzahlm., -, -, 12.09.1939 (Gorzkiewski), VB
Köster Wilhelm, 30.08.1915, Oblt., -, -, 17.09.1939 (Feldlaz 31, Kloster Kostowiec), VB
Kuntzen Kurt, 05.05.1915, Oblt., -, -, 07.09.1939 (b. Podgorze), VB
Kynast Horst Werner, 20.03.1919, Lt., -, -, 05.09.1939 (Podzar b. Sezczerkow), VB
Seidler Karl-Heinz, 28.06.1914, Oblt., -, -, 07.09.1939 (San. Kp. 1/30 Deutsch Krepa), VB
Seifert Horst, 15.02.1914, Oblt., -, -, 12.09.1939 (Matyldzin), VB

and one higher ranking from me:

Strasser Franz, 07.11.1902, Maj., -, -, 15.09.1939 (Feldlaz. 67 Przedzielnica, ca. 16 km südl. v. Przemysl), VB

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#719

Post by Njorl » 09 Apr 2009, 00:47

Stauffenberg II, thanks should be directed to Bernd only, as those are solely his finds :wink:

Here are mine (new from VB):
Nachname: Böckmann
Vorname: Heinrich
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 26.06.1909
Geburtsort: Dahlewitz
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 03.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Topolno, Bez.Bydgoszcz
Nachname: Beyer
Vorname: Helmut
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 30.03.1916
Geburtsort: Kiel
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 13.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: F.Laz.Lubien (Sambor)
Nachname: Bestenbroer
Vorname: Helmut
Dienstgrad: Oberleutnant
Geburtsdatum: 07.05.1914
Geburtsort: Langenhagen
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 04.10.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Feldlaz.7

Helmut Bestenbroer konnte im Rahmen unserer Umbettungsarbeiten nicht geborgen werden.
Die vorgesehene Überführung zum Sammelfriedhof in Przemysl - Sammelfriedhof (Polen) war somit leider nicht möglich.
Sein Name wird im Gedenkbuch des Friedhofes verzeichnet.
And finally a specially interesting one:
Nachname: Bahls
Vorname: Ernst
Dienstgrad: Obersturmführer
Geburtsdatum: 29.07.1915
Geburtsort: Bergen
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 09.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort:

Ernst Bahls ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Berlin-Steg.-Lichterfelde II Parkfdh. (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) .
Endgrablage: Block 20 Reihe 1a Grab 274
According to this topic he was a member of SS-Begleitkommando. According to strip from Canberra Times from Sept. 19th 1939 (see here):
The obituary notice states that he died suddenly while at the front with Hitler, but no details are given.
Where could Hitler be on that day? I seem to recall he visited Kielce around mid-September...

Regards,
MJU

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA German officers

#720

Post by Stauffenberg II » 09 Apr 2009, 07:32

Njorl wrote:Stauffenberg II, thanks should be directed to Bernd only, as those are solely his finds :wink:
The thanks to you had already been done in anticipation for that what you have delivered shortfly thereafter. 8-) Especially thanks for that findings of Bahls. Outstanding. 70 years after the campaign we finally have good listing, at least of the officers. btw: Böckmann is already listed as Bückmann (spelling according to H. Gru. Nord list).

Bahls Ernst, 29.07.1915, Obersturmf., SS-Führerbegleitkommando, -, 09.09.1939, VB (Grablage Berlin), Canberra Times (19.09.1939): “Unexplained Death of Hitler Associate. BERLIN, Monday.The death of Herr Ernst Bahls, one of Hitler's adjutants, has created much speculation throughout Germany.The obituary notice states that he died suddenly while at the front with Hitler, but no details are given. Notice of his death gave rise to many rumours, as Bahls was a close associate of Hitler.”
Bestenbroer Helmut, 07.05.1914, Oblt., -, -, 04.10.1939 (Feldlaz. 7), VB
Beyer Helmut, 30.03.1916, Lt., -, -, 13.09.1939 (Feldlaz. Lubien, Sambor), VB

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