Poland 1939: KIA German officers

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Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 15 Jan 2009 17:42

And I also could add this other one I found:

Nachname: Müller-Haeseler
Vorname: Martin Karl Hugo
Dienstgrad: Major
Geburtsdatum: 02.08.1897
Geburtsort: Halle
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 03.09.1939
Todes-/Vermisstenort: /
Was he serving in headquarters of 10. Army? If yes, he was most probably shot down by Polish AA defence (7th motorized AA battery) over Częstochowa.

Was any major / high ranking officer from headquarters of 10. Army (or other Army) KIA / MIA on 03.09.1939 or on 02.09.1939?

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 18 Jan 2009 20:38

Oberleutnant Lein from Dresden - commander of 2. company from Panzer-Regiment 31. - was WIA and captured in Bojszowy (near Pszczyna) on 3rd of September 1939.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 19 Jan 2009 22:07

This burned out Panzer II Ausf C (destroyed in Brest on the Bug on 14.09.1939):

Image

According to tewu from forum dws belonged to commander of III platoon / 5 company / Panzer-Regiment 8.

Was he KIA?

Kucharek from forum dws wrote:
kucharek wrote:Dorzucę jeszcze dwóch oficerów niemieckich którzy prawdopodobnie polegli we wrześniu 1939 r. Do ewentualnej weryfikacji.
- oberst Rittau dowódca IR 102 poległ 12.09 w Łowiczu
- major von Bohlen oficer III/ IR 51 poległ 9.09 w Słupi.
Oberst Rittau - commander of Infanterie-Regiment 102. (24. ID) - KIA in Łowicz (Polish offensive at the Bzura) on 12.09.1939.

Major von Bohlen - commander of (or at least officer serving in) III./Infanterie-Regiment 51. (18. ID) - KIA in Słupia on 09.09.1939.

Are these two informations correct?

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 19 Jan 2009 22:36

Domen121 wrote:This burned out Panzer II Ausf C (destroyed in Brest on the Bug on 14.09.1939):

Image

According to tewu from forum dws belonged to commander of III platoon / 5 company / Panzer-Regiment 8.

Was he KIA?
Btw - Jan-Hendrik wrote (page number 3. of this thread):
Jan-Hendrik wrote:Officers losses of 10.PD (KIA):

- Lt. d.R. Achler/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Hptm. Dr.Dudensing/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. Herrmann/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. Herwig/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. von Hohendorff/ I./AufklRgt. 8 am ??.??.??
- Lt. d.R. Kothe/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. Kreht/ I./AufklRgt. 8 am ??.??.??
- Lt. d.R. Leyhe/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- Lt. d.R. Otto/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- OLt. Pfalzgraf/ IR 86 am ??.??.??
- OLt. Semerak/ PR 8 am ??.??.??
- Hptm. Simons/ IR 86 am ??.??.??

Jan-Hendrik
Jan-Hendrik, was Mr. Semerak commander of III platoon / 5 company ??? :idea:

Cheers!,

Domen

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Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 20 Jan 2009 14:41

One more:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Hauptmann Helmut Lunke - chef of secret service (Ic) from Stab of 13. Infanterie-Division (mot.) - KIA in his armoured car on 1st of October 1939 during the battle of Kock (on the road Radzyń Podlaski - Kock).

There is even a short note on Christoph Avender's ww2 day by day about it:
1.Oktober 1939:

Oberbefehlshaber Ost:

10.Armee:

A armoured recon-platoon under Hptm.Lunke was sent to the russians at Kock to negotiate about the exact demarcationline did not return.
Relations and memories of Polish soldiers of course also say about this event. According to Polish sources 3 German armoured cars were destroyed. All Germans were killed or captured:
Njorl wrote:2nd Lieutenant Czesław Hake, commissary officer:

(...) From diary: Oszczepalin Pierwszy, 2.X.39r. - a plane flying low was seen yesterday. It was ours. We crossed a river. On the road 3 knocked-out armour cars. Massacre inside.(...)

(...) One of our wachmeisters told me a story about finishing-off of these hitlerite armoured vehicles. I don't remeber though which cavalry regiment did it. Our men were in a scrub, about 500 metres from the road. They had an AT gun and AT rifles. When enemy vehicles appeared on the distant horizon, the sharpshooters with AT rifles hid in the potatoe field. They were given the task to finish off the last vehicle. They were to start as soon as AT gun fired. The enemy was allowed to move to point where road passed near the scrub and the the AT gunner pulled the trigger.
The vehicle stopped after second shot. A few seconds later the second armour was pierced. In the same time uhlans coped with third armoured car that turned out to be radio. They hit the engine which burst into flames. Krauts bailed out and then our lmgs started its play.
All that lasted over a dozen seconds. Later it was found out, that two holes made by our projectiles in armour of first car were so close to each other that they could both be covered with a palm.(...)
Njorl wrote: Jan Kaczorowski, since Sept. 6th head medical officer of regiment:

(...) After this incident the Brigade reached Kock, where following event took place on October 1st: mounted officers recon squad identified 3 German armour units on move towards Kock. 10th Uhlan Regiment, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Busler, had set up an ambush and destroyed the enemy. Only 2 German mechanicians survived - wounded in the head. Interrogation and captured documents revealed, that this was Hitler's delegation sent from Breslau to agree details of partition of Poland. A map found in vehicles had Curzon line drew in blue, which separated areas of German and Soviet influence over captured Polish territory. (...)
The same place:

Image

The same place - another destroyed armoured car:

Image

PS:

And what about this? Could somebody say something on it?:
Domen121 wrote:Oberst Rittau - commander of Infanterie-Regiment 102. (24. ID) - KIA in Łowicz (Polish offensive at the Bzura) on 12.09.1939.

Major von Bohlen - commander of (or at least officer serving in) III./Infanterie-Regiment 51. (18. ID) - KIA in Słupia on 09.09.1939.

Are these two informations correct?
Cheers!,

Domen

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Stauffenberg II
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Stauffenberg II » 21 Jan 2009 17:48

Domen121 wrote:Oberst Rittau - commander of Infanterie-Regiment 102. (24. ID) - KIA in Łowicz (Polish offensive at the Bzura) on 12.09.1939.
No, this info is not correct. Oberst (last rank Gen. Lt.) Rittau was KIA 22.08.1942.

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Rian
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Rian » 21 Jan 2009 20:48

At 3rd September - near my town, Czarnków was killed german captain - probably from Grezschutz. I haven't any source about his name or unit (in books about fights in my region is only information about german captain killed near my town in fight against polish paramilitary unit).
There are any sources about german Grenzschutz losses in 1939 (e.g. killed Grenschutz officers)??

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 21 Jan 2009 22:30

Staufenberg, thanks for the reply! But one more question:
Staufenberg II wrote:
Domen121 wrote:Oberst Rittau - commander of Infanterie-Regiment 102. (24. ID) - KIA in Łowicz (Polish offensive at the Bzura) on 12.09.1939.
No, this info is not correct. Oberst (last rank Gen. Lt.) Rittau was KIA 22.08.1942.
I suppose that there were many officers with surname Rittau in German army.

Is it about Rittau, in Polenfeldzug commander of Infanterie-Regiment 102. (24. ID), or about some other Rittau? :idea:

Because the one who was KIA on 22.08.1942 was Stephen Rittau and he was the commander of 129. Infanterie-Division when he was KIA (he was its commander since 1st of October 1940).

But is he the same Rittau?

Certainly not, because I found info that Oberst Stephen Rittau was the commander of 12. Infanterie-Regiment (31. ID) between 01.02.1939 and 30.09.1940:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=132097

So who was the commander of Infanterie-Regiment 102.? Was his surname also Rittau and was he KIA / MIA?

Cheers,

Domen

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by histan » 22 Jan 2009 00:21

Rittau does not seem to have been a comman name in the German Army. The Rangliste for 1932, the last published, has only one, in 3 Infanterie Regiment. I can't tell you his forename. The Rangliste for 1 May 1944 has none.

From this it seems unlikely that a Rittau was in command of IR 102 or at least not an officer who had been in the Reichsheer

Regards

John

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Piotr Kapuscinski
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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 22 Jan 2009 16:43

The Rangliste for 1932, the last published, has only one, in 3 Infanterie Regiment.
Was his name Stephen?

Stephen Rittau was the commander of 12. (not 3.) Infanterie-Regiment in 1939.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Heimatschuss » 22 Jan 2009 16:56

Hello,
Domen121 wrote:
The Rangliste for 1932, the last published, has only one, in 3 Infanterie Regiment.
Was his name Stephen?

Stephen Rittau was the commander of 12. (not 3.) Infanterie-Regiment in 1939.
according to http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... r/IR12.htm and several other internet sources Infanterieregiment 12 was commanded by Oberst Hugo Ribstein from 1936 till 1940. So Rittau would be available for commanding Infanterieregiment 102 in 1939.

Best regards
Torsten

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 22 Jan 2009 18:56

Heimatschuss wrote:Hello,
Domen121 wrote:
The Rangliste for 1932, the last published, has only one, in 3 Infanterie Regiment.
Was his name Stephen?

Stephen Rittau was the commander of 12. (not 3.) Infanterie-Regiment in 1939.
according to http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... r/IR12.htm and several other internet sources Infanterieregiment 12 was commanded by Oberst Hugo Ribstein from 1936 till 1940. So Rittau would be available for commanding Infanterieregiment 102 in 1939.

Best regards
Torsten
In this thread:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 0&t=132097

Tigre wrote (basing on “Zur Geschichte der Garnison Halberstadt und irher Truppenteile. 1623 – 1994. Werner Hartmann. 4. Band.") that Oberst Stephen Rittau was the commander of Infanterie-Regiment 12. between 01.02.1939 and 30.09.1940.

Since 01.10.1940 Stephen Rittau was the commander of 129. Infanterie-Division.

It seems that the problem is more serious than I expected.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Stauffenberg II » 22 Jan 2009 20:49

According to both Rangliste 1932 and the Stellenbesetzung 1938 there was only higher officer called Rittau. It was Stefan/Stephan, who was KIA in 1942.

IR 12 was led by Ribstein (until Sept., 1940)
IR 102 was led by Rittau (succeeding Knobelsdorff on 01.02.1939).

Best regards!
Last edited by Stauffenberg II on 22 Jan 2009 20:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 22 Jan 2009 20:50

OK, thanks Stauffenberg!

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Re: Poland 1939: KIA High ranking officers

Post by Piotr Kapuscinski » 22 Jan 2009 21:06

IR 12 was led by Ribstein (until Sept., 1940)
IR 102 was led by Rittau (succeeding Knobelsdorff on 01.02.1939).
But what is the source for this info? Stellenbesetzung 1938?

Does Stellenbesetzung 1938 say about what happened in 1939 (sorry if this question is stupid but I'm not acquainted with this source)?
According to Stellenbesetzung 1938 there was only higher officer called Rittau.
Is it possible that another Oberst with surname Rittau was recruited to the army after this Stellenbesetzung was made (I suppose it was in 1938) and before the Polish Campaign?

Best regards!,

Domen

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