Knight's Cross Holders North Africa

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
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Peter H
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#16

Post by Peter H » 06 Feb 2008, 18:21

Thanks Dieter!

According to Bernd,Eduard-Heinrich Kiefer of the HG division,awarded the RK in May 1943,became the actor Til Kiwe after the war.Starred in The Great Escape,The Longest Day etc.

Image


Til Kiwe:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Til_Kiwe

The only RKT on the silver screen!

Til Kiwe as Helmuth Lang in The Longest Day.
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Bernd R
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#17

Post by Bernd R » 07 Feb 2008, 20:55

additions (KC) to the NA list :

Ziegler, Heinz, 16.04.1943, Generalleutnant, im Stab d. 5. Pz.Armee [stellv. Fhr] und Fhr. der Kgr Ziegler

Meyer, Jochen 31.03.1943 Rittmeister Kdr II./Pz.Gren.Rgt "Afrika"

Bernd


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Bernd R
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#18

Post by Bernd R » 07 Feb 2008, 21:11

additions (KC) to the NA list : those marked blue in the quote below [page 27 of the awardholders/unit]
Division „General Göring“ / “Hermann Göring”
(North Africa / Tunisia)

total : 8 KC

Stab :

1. Schmid, Joseph („Beppo“) 21.05.1943 Generalmajor Kdr der in Tunesien eingesetzten Teile der Division „General Göring“ [also called Kampfgruppe Schmid]

remark : „Kdr Pz.Div ‚HG’“ is not correct ; officially during the North African campaign the name was Division “HG” ; Pz.Div formed and called like that in july 1943 first

Grenadier – Regiment 1 „HG“ :

2. Scheid, Johannes 21.06.1943 Oberfeldwebel Zugführer i. d. 11./Gren.Rgt 1 „HG“
3. Schreiber, Kurt 21.06.1943 Hauptmann Kdr II./Gren.Rgt 1 „HG“

Jäger – Regiment „HG“ :

4. Hoefeld, Robert 18.05.1943 Oberleutnant Führer 4./Jäg.Rgt "HG"

5. Quednow, Fritz 05.04.1944 Hauptmann Chef 5./Jäg.Rgt „HG“

remark : Jäger – Regiment „HG“ was formed from Stab, I. and III. / Fsch.Jäg.Rgt 5 in february 1943
(one might say redesignated and renamed) ; before it was called Fallschirmjäger-Regiment “HG” / Kampfgruppe Schmid
quoted here in a official promotion document for Quednow :
http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/index_for ... ession=424
Quednow KIA 27.04.1943 near Tunis ; Pz.Rgt should be a typo, wasn’t in North Africa (?)

6. Schäfer, Heinrich 08.08.1944 Oberfeldwebel Zugführer i. d. 4./Jäg.Rgt „HG“
(US captivity since 13.05.1943 ; very late award !)



Panzeraufklärungs – Abteilung “HG” :

7. Kiefer, Eduard-Heinrich 18.05.1943 Hauptmann Chef 2./Pz.Aufkl.Abt „HG“
(Kiver (?) ; changed name after the war : Kiwe, Till , actor and writer)

Flak – Regiment “HG” :

8. Witte, Heinrich 18.05.1943 Obergefreiter Richtkanonier i. d. 7./Flak-Rgt „HG“
Bernd

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Peter H
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#19

Post by Peter H » 08 Feb 2008, 15:52

Thanks Bernd.

From Nacht's link

174 German RKTs
2 Italian RKTs

Total 176

Less 1 (Arent)

Additons
From AHF 16

Total
(not finalised)

191

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Nacht
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#20

Post by Nacht » 09 Feb 2008, 16:54

Peter,

I just wish I had more time this week to type in the synopsis info for the RK Holders... I have a completed book and the photos and need to scan in and post the 178 into the website... but am glad to add to the list! Thanks for everyone's help! Just thought it might be of value to have a breakout type list for NA... then we get into Sicily and Italy... but I still think that I am leaving out 3 U-Boot Koms. that could be added... but back to that later...

I am a bit in a quandry with my KC Holders in NA list as I added Galland because he was definitely in NA a few times... but the problem with Arent I have not dealt with yet... sorry readers...

In the first photo query... Looks are always confusing as Fröhlich can look like Streich to me in the first queried photo... per another in that same series with the Italian generals... you see Streich...
Image

This is Fröhlich (Early Luft. Kom. in Africa) whom Rommel did not see eye-to-eye with!

Image


The PK officer is Lutz Koch, whom was Rommel's... Staff Media man for nearly three years... you also see his IC awards... he wrote a book on Rommel that I bought in French... Rommel by Lutz Koch circa 1950...
Image

Here is another look at the interview... note also the early 'wire recorder'! Plus this is just after Tobruk fell and they broadcast was being sent back to Germany... supposedly 'LIVE"!

Image

Image
Last edited by Nacht on 12 Feb 2008, 02:33, edited 1 time in total.

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#21

Post by Nacht » 09 Feb 2008, 19:02

We had some of Bernd's list already included (thanks Bernd!)and I had added five more from Fezzo's list and we have a total of 195 with Arent removed and the addition of Galland... (sorry to those that might not think he should be included but as the Kom. of JG 26 I think he should be included...) I only included one NJG flieger and two E-Boot koms. but there is some thought that we might add two more late NJG awardees into the mix. The problem I have in properly defining Knight's Cross Holders in North Africa is the definite need for inclusion of, Oberleutnant (Kapitänleutnant) zur See Friedrich Guggenberger, a KC with Oakleaves recipient Kptn. of U-81 which sank the Ark Royal whom should also be included as far as I would consider... and this really opens up a whole new 'can of worms'!!!

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#22

Post by Nacht » 09 Feb 2008, 19:45

For Koch and Herr,

I think we should not list them if we have no confirmation for the KC.

Both names I couldn't find in the BA-List, on the Lexikon-der-Wehrmacht and in the Forum der Wehrmacht they are not known as KC-holders.
Fezzo...

What do we do here Bernd? Confirmation for Ritterkreuz awards...

Also, I can add another Ramcke photo but this time with Rommel... as you guys know I wrote up and posted a 'white paper' on the Ramcke Brigade here...

Image

I also have a photo question that I'll post over to one of the Ramcke threads... maybe some of these could be merged... I posted a series on the stencils used and cannot find it now!

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Bernd R
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#23

Post by Bernd R » 09 Feb 2008, 19:50

RE : "worms" :) , resp. U-Boot KC recipients who operated in the Mediterranean with their boats
boat list on uboat.net

Matter of defining really. A first round of looking for U-Boot KC recipients in the Mediterranean results in the following list :
U-73
KC
Rosenbaum, Helmut 12.08.1942 Kapitänleutnant, Kdt.
[HMS Eagle]

U-77
KC
Schonder, Heinrich 19.08.1942 Kapitänleutnant, Kdt.

U-81
Oakleaves
Guggenberger, Friedrich [171. EL] 08.01.1943 Kapitänleutnant, Kdt.

KC
Guggenberger, Friedrich 10.12.1941 Kapitänleutnant, Kdt.

U-431
KC
Dommes, Wilhelm 02.12.1942 Kapitänleutnant, Kdt.
Schöneboom, Dietrich 20.10.1943 Oberleutnant zur See, Kdt.

U-559
KC
Heidtmann, Hans 12.04.1943 Kapitänleutnant, Kdt.

U-565
KC
Franken, Wilhelm 30.04.1943 Kapitänleutnant, Kdt.
[HMS Partridge]

U-593
KC
Kelbling, Gerd 18.08.1943 Kapitänleutnant, Kdt.
[from the U-Boot list, page 119 of the awardholders/unit]

Bernd

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Bernd R
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#24

Post by Bernd R » 09 Feb 2008, 20:05

Nacht wrote:For Koch and Herr,

I think we should not list them if we have no confirmation for the KC.

Both names I couldn't find in the BA-List, on the Lexikon-der-Wehrmacht and in the Forum der Wehrmacht they are not known as KC-holders.
Fezzo...

What do we do here Bernd? Confirmation for Ritterkreuz awards...
Nacht,
looks like a problem (which Peter didn't want to create, I'm sure) but it isn't.
See my orginal post below :
of note these two other Feld-Bataillon "T" [Tunis] recipients, added recently :
Quote:
Koch, Karl, 10.05.1943, Hauptmann, Feld-Btl. “T 4” [Feld-Btl Tunis 4 / Pz.AOK 5] / DKiG
Herr, Wilhelm, 08.04.1943 (1670), Leutnant, Kp.Fhr. 4./Feld.Btl. “T 5” [Feld-Btl Tunis 5 / Pz.AOK 5] / AU
Deutsches Kreuz in Gold for Koch and "Anerkennungsurkunde" for Herr !

Bernd

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Bernd R
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#25

Post by Bernd R » 09 Feb 2008, 21:03

I'm through the comparisn work for Heer, Heerestruppen and staff commands.

Further KC additions :

10. Panzer-Division :

Drewes, Heinrich Dr. 24.04.1943 Major d.R. Kdr KradSchtz.Btl 10

Haut, Erich 10.05.1943 Hauptmann d.R. Kdr I./Pz.Gren.Rgt 86

Oakleaves
Hudel, Helmut [219. EL] 02.04.1943 Hauptmann Kdr I./Pz.Rgt 7
and KC
Hudel, Helmut 27.05.1942 Hauptmann Chef 1./Pz.Rgt 7


90. Afrika-Division :

Panzeraufklärungs – Abteilung 90 : (formed [not fully realized] march 1943 from Aufkl.Abt 3 (mot) / 21. Pz.Div)
8. Zecherle, Konrad 10.05.1943 Leutnant d.R. Zugführer i. d. 1./Pz.Aufkl.Abt 90

[as listed in the awardholders/unit, based on Scherzer, "RKT", 1st ed 2005]

Bernd

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#26

Post by Nacht » 09 Feb 2008, 21:28

Bernd thanks... do we add the U-Boot men? I'll remove Herr and Karl Koch...

Also...Oblt. Tietjen... trying to confirm Cord Tietjen (RK winner May 24, 1940) as being our same Ramcke Fallschirmjäger Pioneere Kompanie...

Is the confusion... in having the three Koch's ??? Koch's FJR 5 (includes Fallsch.Pi.Btl.(11) Witzig) but did not this Koch himself get the RK? I could have sworn he got an RK!
This would be another Koch to add... and not the PR8's Dietrich Koch whom for sure is correct in NA!

The mentioned Karl Koch is the incorrect addition in the mix from the list given, correct?

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Dieter Zinke
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#27

Post by Dieter Zinke » 10 Feb 2008, 00:44

Bernd,

there is a complete list of all recipients of whole the KC (Kriegsmarine) in the Mediterrranean See in
Karl Alman (=Franz Kurowski): "Graue Wölfe in blauer See.Einsatz deutscher U-Boote im Mittelmeer", Erich Pabel Verlag, Rastatt, 1967

including for example
Albrecht Brandi
Karl Jörss
Rolf Johannesson
Werner Lange
Albert Oesterlin
Otto Pollmann
F. W. Thorwest
Horst Weber

and many more ...

Dieter Z.

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Bernd R
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#28

Post by Bernd R » 10 Feb 2008, 01:16

Hallo Dieter,

thanks, good hint. So, re-check possible. Kurowski again... :)

As a rapid reaction :
"Traue keiner Statistik, die du nicht selbst gefälscht hast !" :)
[I'm corageous to try a translation : don't trust any statistic which you didn't falsified yourself (German saying) ]

Bernd

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#29

Post by Nacht » 10 Feb 2008, 01:17

Dieter,

This was the can of worms I was afraid of!!! I added the U-Boot Koms... already had the two Schnellboote RK notables... does someone want to compile the 'Med Kriegsmarine group' and I'll plug them into the mix... since it is in a database format we can pull out the relevant query needs. Like only Luftwaffe or Flak or Heeres Stab, etc...
We have 204 in the RK "AFRIKA" Holder list now...

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#30

Post by Nacht » 10 Feb 2008, 01:21

I have all of the Kurowski's... just need time to fill in the table information and the photos if we want to add all Kriegsmarine... from everyone's help (thanks again Bernd)... but not Deiter's newest add-ons!

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