Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

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Doktor Krollspell
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Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 13 Mar 2008 16:22

Hello!

Does anyone have anything on an Oberstleutnant Münchow (first name unknown), who recieved the DKiG on 01.02.1945 with the designation Kampfkdt. Budapest?
Source: Patzwall & Scherzer "Das Deutsche Kreuz 1941-1945 - Geschichte und Inhaber Band II" (2001).


Thanks in advance,

Krollspell

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Bernd R
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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Bernd R » 15 Mar 2008 08:17

the same here,
he is listed like that in the "awardholder/unit" with a slight add, as Kampfkommandant was Pfeffer-Wildenbruch.
German Cross in Gold
Münchow, [first name not listed], 01.02.1945, Oberstleutnant, [beim] Kampfkdt. Budapest

is he Leopold von Münchow, 1884-1945, OTL ?
found here : http://home.foni.net/~adelsforschung2/portefeuille05.htm
The DOB speaks for a WW1 service (?) , KIA 1945 (?) , what does the Ranglisten / Keilig say ?

regards, Bernd

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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 15 Mar 2008 08:58

Hello Bernd!

Leopold von Münchow...? Well, the rank of Oberstleutnant and the DOD sure fits the person but I have a question. How usual was it with a 60+ year old officer holding the rank of Oberstleutnant and an active position/command, in (von?) Münchow's case [beim] Kampfkdt. Budapest , i e SS-Obergruppenfüher Karl Pfeffer-Wildenbruch? And would writers and researchers like Patzwall and Scherzer (and others) miss the noble "von"?

Now, if Oberstleutnant Leopold von Münchow (1884-1945) was the DKiG awarded Oberstleutnant Münchow in Budapest in 1945 or not, no one with that name is listed in the index pages of neither Krisztián Ungváry's "Battle for Budapest - 100 Days in World War II" (2003), nor in Georg Maier's "Drama zwischen Budapest und Wien - Der Endkampf der 6. Panzerarmee 1945" (1985).
Hmm... Hopefully more information will be found!


Regards,

Krollspell

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Bernd R
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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Bernd R » 15 Mar 2008 09:51

Hello Krollspell,

Yes, could be a trace only if the name is "von Münchow".

There could be slight errors and typos in the reference works, even the missing of a "von". We have detected dozens of such in the "awardholder/unit" project. It doesn't neccessarily mean a wrong or sloppy research, it could be transcripting errors (editor) also.

Concerning the age aspect : pretty sure that there were a number of 60+ year old officers in frontline service [active command] (prominent example : think about GFM von Rundstedt).
Immediately came to mind OTL/Oberst August Ritter von Eberlein, born 1877 ! His case we had and I'm still on it to confirm it finally. You can follow it here :
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1112587#p1112587
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1112963#p1112963
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?p=1116316#p1116316

regards, Bernd

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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 15 Mar 2008 14:50

Hello again Bernd and thanks for your input on Oberstleutnant (von) Münchow! Also, interesting links/threads on August Ritter von Eberlein... :D

Maybe there's a photograph of (von) Münchow out there... somewhere...


With best regards,

Krollspell

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Bernd R
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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Bernd R » 05 Apr 2008 19:34

Hello Krollspell and all,

there's indeed a photo of Leopold von Münchow on the site of the "Geschlechtsverband Derer von Münchow"
[family union] http://www.von-muenchow.de/Geschichte.htm

I have contacted the family union but unfortunately didn't get an answer within a week now.
Still hope they will have any piece of info and are willing to provide it.

Well, this photo is really telling stories !
From 1944, so, no DKiG of course.

The awards I am able to identifiy :
- EK 1 (WW1) with Spange (WW2)
- EK 2 with Spange
- KVK (WW2)
- "Harp Madalyasi" = Eiserner Halbmond = Gallipoli Star (WW1) [should be]
and :
- unknown [Freikorps Kreuz ?]
- unknown [WW1 award ; German State or foreign country ?]

Interesting is that he is wearing a "Preußischer Totenkopf" on his Schirmmütze !
As the family is Pommeranian nobility it could mean twice :
1) service with the 1. or 2. Leibhusaren, Danzig in WW1
2) service with the Reiter-/Kavallerie-Regiment 5, Stolp in the Reichswehr/Wehrmacht
or eventually
3) service with an Aufkl.Abt. which was formed out of the Kav.Rgt. 5 -> AA 12, 32, 175
[individual wear of the death head lateron ?]

Any input on this ?

At the moment I see a strong probability that he is the DKiG recipient at Budapest.
Really a pitty that again there is no 100% proof as it is right now in the parallel "Hyazinth von Strachwitz" case.


regards, Bernd
Leopold von Münchow.jpg
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Elwyn W
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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Elwyn W » 05 Apr 2008 21:08

The other two medals were:

Top: I think that's the Mecklenberg Schwerin Militardienstkreuz. If he was from Pommern, good chance he earned this in WW1.
Bottom: looks like a lower order of the Rumanina Order of the Crown with Crown and Swords.

And a wound badge in silver or gold that just got cut off by the pic.

Cheers
Freiherr

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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 06 Apr 2008 20:49

Thanks Bernd for the great photograph of Leopold von Münchow! A very interesting combination of awards on this man's chest. I agree with Freiherr that the lower decoration sure looks like the Order of the Crown of Romania. This must have been awarded to von Münchow during WWII since the military version (with swords, which are clearly seen on the photograph) was instituted in 1938. (Source: David Littlejohn "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich - Volume 4" (1987)).


Regards,

Krollspell

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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by USAF1986 » 06 Apr 2008 22:13

Hi! I think the decoration in question is the Bulgarian Order of Bravery, 4th Class (1st Grade). Although it’s hard to tell in this photo, it appears there are two dates, one each on the upper and lower arms of the cross. If so, then it would be a WWI issue.

Best regards,
Shawn

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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by VtwinVince » 06 Apr 2008 22:13

Looks like the Braunschweig Ernst-August Kreuz 1. Klasse next to the EK 1.

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Bernd R
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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Bernd R » 07 Apr 2008 12:29

Thanks, gentlemen !
I was considering to put the picture in the WW1 forum as well but I was almost sure that there has to be expertise here and also experience in identifying pics. :D

This case is turning into a fascinating chase as I found some brand new other stuff which I want to present in a follow up post. Hope this is of interest and further input will come in.

Although there is a bigger WW1 aspect let's keep this topic in the ABR forum as the original question was about the DKiG / Budapest.

The awards aspect :

Agree, there is a Wound Badge (Verwundetenabzeichen) at the bottom.

1) The German Award (think it's clear now that the one on top left to the EK 1 is a German State award of WW1) :
See pics from Dave Danner's excellent site http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/schwerin.htm below

The Mecklenburg-Schwerin MVK 1.Klasse (Military Merit Cross) has thin arms, whereas the Braunschweig Ernst-August-Kreuz 1.Klasse (= Kriegsverdienstkreuz [War Merit Cross] ) has thick ones.
Therefore I tend to identify the Cross as the Braunschweig War Merit Cross. (?)

To support this we have to come back to the "Death Head".
The Braunschweiger "Totenkopf-Husaren" = Braunschweigisches Husaren-Regiment Nr. 17 [17th Death Head Hussars] were wearing a death head. The tradition then was handed over to the Reichswehr Reiter-Regiment 13.
For Heer tradition badges see here :
"Braunschweiger Totenkopf" , the second one :
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Orden/Erinn.Zeich..htm
"Preußischer Totenkopf" (Life Hussars , Reiter-/Kavallerie-Regiment 5), example on AHFactbook :
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=4511

Conclusion : von Münchow was wearing the death head in remembrance of his Braunschweig service.
But, to not make this case easy :? - he is not wearing a Brunswick death head !! It's the Prussian version.
At the moment I just can presume that only this piece was available at that time.
MeckSchwerin_MVK1_obv_ritter.jpg
Braunschweig_EAK1_1.jpg


2) The foreign award :
I tend to say, it's the Bulgarian Order of Bravery, 4th Class
For the Romanian Order of the Crown see here :
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=386
http://www.worldwar2.ro/decoratii/?article=111
http://www.marksmedals.com/romanian_medals_files/order_of_the_crown.html
For the Bulgarian Order of Bravery see here :
http://home.att.net/~ordersandmedals/bulgaria.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_Bulgaria

After a second view - what do you think ?

Thanks, Bernd
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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Bernd R » 07 Apr 2008 13:19

Preliminary research results - posted already in the hope we might achieve progress here.

2) The Leopold von Münchow biographical aspect :

first, of note : the only other von Münchow higher awards recipient is :
Günther von Münchow, DKiG : 30.01.1943, Hauptmann, Gren.Rgt. 178 / 76. Inf.Div.

The following sources are containing short passages about a "Hauptmann von Münchow" and it looks very much like it could be the later Oberstleutnant Leopold von Münchow.

"Surviving in fear" - Four Jews describe their time at the Volkswagen Works from 1943 to 1945 , For Volkswagen AG Corporate History Department, Wolfsburg 2005
http://www.volkswagen-environment.de/_download/HN11engl.pdf
[pages 70/71]

Sally Perel - "Ich war Hitlerjunge Salomon" (book)
http://www.zum.de/Faecher/D/BW/gym/Becker/perel.htm
Er wird nun von der 12. Panzerdivision auf ihrem Feldzug nach Osten mitgenommen, als Maskottchen und als Übersetzer bei Verhören, vor allem von russischen Offizieren. Er erwirbt sich das Vertrauen der Mannschaft und wird sogar vom kinderlosen Kompanie-Chef, Hauptmann von Münchow, adoptiert; "Du wirst Joseph von Münchow heißen."(44)


http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/133d/prevyears/99/index.html
this site provides further info about the movie "Europa, Europa" [international name], in Germany it was called "Hitlerjunge Salomon", based on the autobiography of Sally Perel.
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/classes/133d/prevyears/98/EuropaEuropa/EUROPA.HTM
and, obviously there is an authentic photo of Sally Perel showing him in Russia as a translator together with Hauptmann von Münchow, 12. Pz.Div.
Is this the same man as shown on the pic above of OTL von Münchow !?
Hptm von Münchow Russia 1942.jpg


What's on page 71 [by Sally Perel] of the Volkswagen compilation is really interesting :
"[...] I was told by some of the other former officers [was] that a niece of Captain von Münchow who wanted to adopt me after the war, had spoken up for me. Münchow owned a lot of land in Pommern near Stettin, and his niece was Henriette von Schirach, the wife of Baldur von Schirach, the highest ranking leader in the hitler youth."


Add by me :
The home base of the von Münchows was Gut Retzin, resp. Granzin [Grezino] near Belgard at Westpommern.
http://www.belgard.org/Ortsgesch/Retzin.htm

Henriette von Schirach was the daughter of Heinrich Hoffmann (Hitler's photographer) and the actrice Therese "Nelly" Baumann.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henriette_von_Schirach

That would mean, that the Hauptmann von Münchow, connected to Sally Perel (who lives in Israel), is related to Heinrich Hoffmann !!??

Right now I rate this case with :roll: :roll: :roll: :idea: :)


regards, Bernd
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Bernd R
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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Bernd R » 08 Apr 2008 10:53

Inspired by the procedere of colleague Moltke d. J. in the von Strachwitz case I finally found von Münchow (lately, sorry!) in the GHdA which is provided on the von Münchow site :

Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels [GHdA] - Adelige Häuser A Band XI (1971) , page 329 :
[...]
II. Linie (Buckow-Bärwalde), 1. Ast (Zerrehne-Eichenberge)
[...]
the entry reads :
von Münchow, Leopold, Paul Georg Alexander , *04.03.1884 Lippehne , + (gef.) 00.02.1945 Budapest , [grave: auf Latzig, Krs. Köslin] , Kreisrat a.D. , Referendar a.D. , Oberstleutnant, Ehrenritter des Johanniter-Ordens

[married ; no children]

So, this is the man. Question basically answered. Another Scheibert gap closed.
Position / duty -> Kampfkdt. Budapest still open.

btw, Günther von Münchow, DKiG on 30.01.1943 as Hptm with GR 178 was married and had one daughter. The aspect that Leopold von Münchow was the childless Hptm and Kp-Chef of Sally Perel is confirmed on base of that.

Bernd

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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 08 Apr 2008 13:09

Hello Bernd et al.!

Thank you very much Bernd, for your great effort and research zeal when it came to Oberstleutnant and DKiG holder Leopold von Münchow! :D It's very interesting reading on this officer and I find it quite amazing what a simply question can give when it comes to the knowledge and effort of all the experts here on AHF...


With best regards,

Krollspell

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Re: Oberstleutnant Münchow, Kampfkdt. Budapest?

Post by Troy Tempest » 09 Jun 2008 00:35

Hi Bernd, here is a photo of my Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz I.Klasse:
Braunschweig Kriegsverdienstkreuz I.Klasse obverse.jpg
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Hello from sunny Port Macquarie

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