Generals Officers Seniority Dates (RDA)

[iggy88]

While I appreciate your effort to instruct me in logic. As someone who has undoubtedly reviewed many NARA files, I believe that you will agree that the documents are, in fact, numbered in reverse order (i.e. with more recent documents having a lower number). Therefore, your assertion that document 25 was issued after document 20 is, Herr Professor, illogical.

[askropp]

The documents are, in fact, numbered in reverse order.

No, they are evidently not. The documents are not only dated, they also allow us to retrace the career of certain officers who are mentioned in several different Orderanweisungen. What is true is that the newest documents (the last one being dated 14 April 1945) are the first in the folder (because they were simply filed in the same order in which they came in, and the last one was always put on top), but when they were numbered in red handwriting (obviously after 14 April), the oldest document got the 1 and the latest the 46. And once again, Bechler was already promoted when Document 25 was issued, which wouldn't make any sense if it had been the other way round.

[askropp]

The promotions after february 1945 are -as far as I know- so called " Beförderungen unter Vorbehalt der Erteilung eines RDA".
I had in the early 70er years a conversation with Gen.Maj. Bachelin about the Heerespersonalamt - he explained me the praxis of the Pers.Amt.
Mr. Absolon,a specialist for the Personalamt, agreed too. In his small book about the promotions in 1945 he listed the names, without RDA.

I just found the above-quoted post by (former?) user Macguffy in an obscure thread about Oberst Paul von Mayer. As it seems, Absolon was not guilty of adding fictitious RDA numbers to late war promotions. But the post confirms once more my opinion that there were (and still are) no official RDA numbers for general promotions after 01.03.1945.

[Aisingioro]

Hi,

Generale
01.09.1944 (1) ???
01.09.1944 (2) Graeser
01.09.1944 (2a) Matzky

Aisin

[askropp]

01.09.1944 (1) [nicht vergeben]
01.09.1944 (2) Fritz-Hubert Gräser [05.12.1944 neues RDA vom 01.12.1943 (5a) erhalten]
01.09.1944 (2a) Gerhard Matzky
01.09.1944 (3) Edgar Röhricht
01.09.1944 (4) Gustav Harteneck
01.09.1944 (4a) Ulrich Kleemann
01.09.1944 (5) Friedrich Hochbaum
01.09.1944 (6) Ferdinand Jodl

Regards,
Albert

[Aisingioro]

Thanks Albert

[Aisingioro]

Generalarzt

01.10.1942 (3 ?) Baumeister, Wilhelm
01.10.1942 (3 ?) Schrode, Heinrich

01.01.1944 (1 ?) Prümers, Heinrich
01.01.1944 (1 ?) Scheppokat, Karl

01.09.1944 (2 ?) Hartleben, Hans
01.09.1944 (2 ?) Spiegelberg, Hans

Aisin

[askropp]

01.10.1942 (1) Heinrich Smend
01.10.1942 (2) August Stahm
01.10.1942 (3) Heinrich Schrode
01.10.1942 (4) Wilhelm Baumeister

01.01.1944 (1) Heinrich Prümers
01.01.1944 (2) Karl Scheppokat

01.09.1944 (1) Hans Spiegelberg
01.09.1944 (2) Hans Hartleben

[Aisingioro]

Generalarzt

01.08.1939 (?) Neumüller, Kurt 1891-1978
01.08.1939 (?) Blaul, Friedrich 1889-1947

01.09.1941 (?) Groth, Walter 1883-1974
01.09.1941 (?) Sabersky-Müssigbrodt, Martin 1895-1983

01.08.1944 (?) Jacoby, Otto 1888-1967
01.08.1944 (?) Thomann, Otto 1894-1968

01.01.1945 (?) Bengsch, Otto 1879-1954
01.01.1945 (?) Liebermann, Oskar 1896-1974

Aisin

[Aisingioro]

Generalleutnant (Heer)

01.10.1939 (09) ???
01.08.1942 (11) ???
01.01.1943 (08) ???
01.10.1943 (07) ???
01.01.1944 (05) ???
01.02.1944 (05) ???
01.03.1944 (04) ???
01.05.1944 (01) ???
01.09.1944 (01) ???
01.10.1944 (04) ???
01.01.1945 (01) ???
30.01.1945 (02) ???
30.01.1945 (06) ???
30.01.1945 (07) ???

Aisin

[askropp]

01.10.1939 (9) Walter Behschnitt [promotion was postponed, got only the Charakter at this point]
01.08.1942 (11) Johannes Frießner [promotion was postponed]

If you followed my "Generals of 1945" thread, you will remember that at least in late 1944 and 1945, there is always a gap (empty slot) between the last officer with a planmäßige Beförderung and the first officer with a bevorzugte Beförderung. This should explain the majority of the missing slots.

Regarding 30.01.1945, there was no (6) and (7). Hans Junck and Franz-Eccard von Bentivegni, who were promoted later mit RDA vom 30.01.1945, apparently never got an Ordnungsnummer. If they had, Junck should have been the (4a) and Bentivegni the (6).

Regards,
Albert

[Aisingioro]

Thanks,
-------------------------------------------
Generalmajor (Heer)

01.03.1942 (3) ???
01.04.1942 (44) ???
01.04.1942 (45) ???
01.04.1942 (46) ???
01.04.1942 (47) ???
01.04.1942 (74) ???
01.05.1942 (2) ???

01.02.1943 (4) ???
01.10.1943 (3) ???
01.11.1943 (11) ???

01.01.1944 (13) ???
01.01.1944 (14) ???
01.02.1944 (6) ???
01.07.1944 (3) ???
01.10.1944 (14) ???
01.12.1944 (1) ???

01.01.1945 (5) ???
30.01.1945 (12) ???
01.03.1945 (9) ???
01.03.1945 (16) ???


Aisin

[askropp]

01.03.1942 (2) August Spengler [promotion was postponed]
01.03.1942 (3) Ernst Ritter von Horstig genannt d'Aubigny von Engelbrunner [later changed to (2)]
Don't ask me why! The (4) was not changed into the (3).

01.02.1943 (4) Wilhelm Kunze

01.11.1943 As far as I know, there were only 10 officers with that RDA

The majority of the 1944/45 cases should again be empty slots (see above). Apparently, there are no original Ordnungsnummern for officers after 01.03.1945 (8), but Karl Göbel should have been the (16).

[Aisingioro]

Walter Keiner
00.00.19__ General der Artillerie mit RDA vom 01.01.1943 (1a)

Karl Kriebel
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 01.04.1943 (1a)

Friedrich Siebert
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 01.05.1943 (2a)

Wilhelm Schneckenburger
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 01.05.1943 (2b)

Erich Jaschke
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 01.05.1943 (3a)

Rudolf Toussaint
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 01.09.1943 (2a)

Walther Lucht
00.00.19__ General der Artillerie mit RDA vom 01.10.1943 (1a)

Friedrich Köchling
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 01.02.1944 (3a)

Hans von Greiffenberg
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 01.04.1944 (2a)

Georg Pfeiffer
00.00.19__ General der Artillerie mit RDA vom 01.05.1944 (1a)

Gerhard Matzky
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 01.09.1944 (2a)

Kurt Waeger
00.00.19__ General der Artillerie mit RDA vom 01.10.1944 (2a)

Hans Speth
00.00.19__ General der Artillerie mit RDA vom 01.10.1944 (4a)

Carl Püchler
00.00.19__ General der Infanterie mit RDA vom 09.11.1944 (5a)

Heinrich Freiherr von Lüttwitz
00.00.19__ General der Panzertruppe mit RDA vom 09.11.1944 (8a)

Kurt Versock
00.00.19__ General der Gebirgstruppe mit RDA vom 09.11.1944 (11)



Aisin

[histan]

From his Personalakte

Jaschke 19.04.1943 bef m.W.V 01.05.1943 (Vfg 3365/43)

Regards

John