German army commanders of WW2

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
histan
Member
Posts: 1244
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 17:22
Location: England

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby histan » 01 May 2017 11:26

Information on Vertreter for von Reichenau at AOK 6, October - November 1940

Reichenau 01.jpg


Reichenau 02.jpg


Reichenau 03.jpg


Reichenau 04.jpg


Reichenau 05.jpg


Regards

John
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

histan
Member
Posts: 1244
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 17:22
Location: England

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby histan » 01 May 2017 11:40

Information on Vertreter for von Reichenau AOK 6, March - April 1941

Reichenau 06.jpg


Reichenau 07.jpg


Regards

John

PS All taken from NARA T-312 R-1384 newly posted on jccalvin free site. Thanks go to John and the provider of the roll.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 3007
Joined: 07 May 2008 23:42

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 01 May 2017 15:16

Many thanks, John! Can we assume Paltzo (a mere Major!) "commanded" until this day ...
test.jpg

... or did Heim return earlier than Reichenau?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

Rossano
Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: 25 May 2007 23:56
Location: Italy

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby Rossano » 02 May 2017 13:00

Hello, very interesting but I am perplexed
I (logically) understand that the real official Vertreter des OB are the Gerichtsherren (the Gen.d.Inf.), whilst the officers im Gen.Stab were Vertreter for laufende Angelegenheiten only (paperwork etc.)
Rgds., Rossano

User avatar
Frech
Forum Staff
Posts: 1268
Joined: 08 Oct 2005 08:27
Location: Austria

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby Frech » 02 May 2017 13:42

No, a) means just that f.e. Kratzert was Vertreter des OB only in his function as Gerichtsherr. And not in his function as acting commander.

Regards Christian

histan
Member
Posts: 1244
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 17:22
Location: England

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby histan » 02 May 2017 14:58

Christian, askropp and others who understand the system in the German Army at this time

My understanding is that an Army commander (or an Army Group, Corps, or Division commander) has a number of responsibilities
One is for the conduct of operations and training where he is assisted by the Chef and the Ia
One is for supply issues, where he is assisted by the Chef and the O Qu
One is for personnel issues,including recommendations for decorations, promotions, completing appraisals, etc where he is assisted by the IIa.
One would be for legal issues, I am assuming disciplinary offences, etc come under this heading
Another, I would guess would be for spending money.

When a commander is away, (on leave, sick, or performing other duties) for a significant period of time then there are a number of options that were used to fill in during his absence.

One was to task another General with leading the Army (mit der Führung der XX Armee beaftragt). In this case, I think this General assumed all of the command functions of the Army commander.

Another was for the Chef to take responsibility for current operations, training, and I think logistics. This is my interpretation of "laufende Angelegenheiten" - am I correct?

The remaining functions could then be held in abeyance until the return of the Army commander, when he would review and sign relevant documents prepared during his absence, etc

Or, another general could be tasked with responsibility for some of these functions, which is my interpretation of Gerichtsherr - is this correct?

Regards

John

PS If the Chef as responsible for "laufende Angelegenheiten" is regarded as standing in for the Army commander in this case then some of the stand ins for AOK 1 will probably have to be replaced by the Chef.

User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 3007
Joined: 07 May 2008 23:42

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 02 May 2017 15:29

The "Gerichtsherr" is the supreme judge of the AOK. I would translate "laufende Angelegenheiten" as "routine duties" or "daily affairs". In the case of AOK 6 cited above, there were no ongoing military operations, so this would have been administrative work, but also supervising the preparations for "Barbarossa". As the OKH knew when the offensive would begin, of course it arranged for Reichenau's timely return. If he would have remained unfit for duty, a successor or Vertreter of sufficient rank would have been named. This would also have been the case if Stalin had started a preventive attack before 22 June. We have found several cases in which the Chef took over even during campaigns, but it was always in quiet sectors or when the Germans were defending static lines and there were no important command decisions imminent. We must not forget that there were always the Heeresgruppe and OKH which could be consulted by an acting Chef, and he did not really "command" the subordinated Armeekorps, but submitted orders "in the name" of the OB or just forwarded them from HGr HQ / OKH to the front line units.

In all other cases known to me, the Chef was a GM or at least an Oberst. This case seems to be unique because Paltzo was only Heim's Vertreter as Chef when he also began to act for Reichenau! I wonder why Schuler took over for a few days, maybe Paltzo was on a Dienstreise.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

histan
Member
Posts: 1244
Joined: 14 Jan 2008 17:22
Location: England

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby histan » 02 May 2017 16:02

Hi askropp

Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense.

The Chef would be fully aware of his commander's intentions for planning, training, logistics, etc and as you say would be in almost daily contact with the Chef or Ia of the Heeresgruppe.

Personnel issues that needed the signature of the OB, such as appraisals of subordinate generals would presumably await the return of the OB.

Sorry - not AOK 1 but Ob.Ost - see attached.

Blaskowitz 01.JPG


Regards

John
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Rossano
Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: 25 May 2007 23:56
Location: Italy

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby Rossano » 02 May 2017 16:44

Hello gentlemen, again very interesting indeed, but I' m still perplexed.
Let me first say that I need the true "acting OB" only. So in the last case (being written in John's last doc. "Vertreter") I guess that the 3 generals listed are the official "acting OB", whilst Hollidt only cared for the paperwork (lauf. Angelegenh.)
For the same reason I thought (and I still think) that the so called "Gerichtsherren" are to be understood as "Vertreter" too (so as official "acting OB") like in John's doc. (although they sound like "responsable for legal matters only), and the staff officers only cared for the paper work (lauf. Angel.)

User avatar
Frech
Forum Staff
Posts: 1268
Joined: 08 Oct 2005 08:27
Location: Austria

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby Frech » 02 May 2017 17:02

As far as I see the "Gerichtsherr" was not the functional supreme judge of an army. This was the "Oberkriegsgerichtsrat der Armee" who owned a R-Stelle (regimental commander equivalent).

Gerichtsherr means that the OB had the right of judgement confirmation or pardon or to suspend a judgment.

You may not forget that an Armeeoberkommando was not just a military command but a legal authority (Behörde) too.

I am sure that there are members out there who can explain things better....

Kindest

Christian

User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 3007
Joined: 07 May 2008 23:42

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 02 May 2017 17:05

A Stellvertreter has all the powers the nominal OB, but a Gerichtsherr is only responsible for legal affairs (confirmation of court martial sentences etc.) If you are looking for the "true acting OB" in the AOK 6 case, it was simply still Reichenau, even if he was physically away from the HQ.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

Rossano
Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: 25 May 2007 23:56
Location: Italy

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby Rossano » 02 May 2017 18:35

Askropp, von Reichenau was "OB", and if/when he was away somebody must have been his (official) "acting OB" (I think the Gerichtsherren, but I' m not sure...., whilst in John' s last doc. are clearly the "Vertreter").
Rossano

User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 3007
Joined: 07 May 2008 23:42

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 03 May 2017 13:36

Regarding the recent discussion about AOK 11, it seems as if the HPA did not consider it defunct during the transfer from Pommern to the Harz:
test.jpg

If we follow this, Steiner was in command until Hitzfeld took over (soon to be replaced by Lucht).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

Rossano
Member
Posts: 2113
Joined: 25 May 2007 23:56
Location: Italy

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby Rossano » 03 May 2017 14:33

Hello Askropp
I have Steiner until 5.3.45 only, then vacant. Also, I have Hitzfeld from 2.4
Rossano
P.S.: Is Your document part of a Nara roll ? If yes, which ref.no. and is the whole (in 1945 only ?) interesting with regard to Stellenbesetzung ? Thanks

User avatar
askropp
Forum Staff
Posts: 3007
Joined: 07 May 2008 23:42

Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 04 May 2017 19:55

It's from NARA T-78 R-39, a very valuable source for the last weeks of the war.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!


Return to “Axis Biographical Research”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]