German army commanders of WW2

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke & Elwyn W.
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askropp
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 05 May 2017 16:08

I found another stand-in period for Wilhelm Fahrmbacher at AOK 7, this time in March 1943 (beginning sometime after 12 March and ending on 30 March). The KTB shows that he, although an official Stellvertreter, stayed at his AK command post and was only consulted by the Armeechef on the telephone two times. He had nothing to do with daily affairs, but would have taken over full command in the case of an enemy landing attempt.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 06 May 2017 12:32

From the Beurteilung of Oberstleutnant Hermann Kraus:

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What do we make of this? GM Kurt Rüdiger was HArko 312 under PzAOK 4. A very strange choice for a Stellvertreter!
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Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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genstab
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby genstab » 11 May 2017 23:47

I believe I discovered a new mFb for 9. Armee. I'm reading Robert Kirchubel's "Operation Barbarossa" and he says on page 232 that when Panzergruppen 2 and 3 were sent toward Heeresgruppen Süd and Nord respectively in August 1941, Hermann Hoth remained with Heeresgruppe Mitte. This piqued my curiosity as I'd never read anything like that, and if anyone reported it in this project I sure missed it. Checking the book further I found mention on page 273 that "he [Hoth] had lost most of his armor to Heeresgruppe Nord [that was XXXIX. Panzerkorps, leaving him with LVII.] and, as of August 5th, he also commanded the AOK 9 in place of the ailing Strauß". I do see the indication starting in the 7-8-41 O/B that PzGr 3 was "z. Zeit AOK 9 unterstellt" until in the 21 August O/B, HQ 3. PzAOK is shown in 9th Army Reserve which continues until the 22 Sept O/B where the Panzergruppe is shown under 9. Armee with LVI. Panzerkorps subordinated to it. This could be about the time Strauß returned and Hoth resumed command of the Panzergruppe. I couldn't find any mention in the book of when Strauß came back or Hoth resumed to 3. Panzerarmee. Would anyone have Hoth's or Strauß' Gerneralskartei to nail this one down?

Best regards,
Bill in Cleveland

BTW, according to the OKH schematic O/Bs in Die Geheimen Tagesberichte, it doesn't look like Guderian's Panzergruppe 2 ever actually came under the command of Heeresgruppe Süd but cooperated with it.

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 12 May 2017 14:23

As John (histan) proved above (page 7), Hoth commanded AOK 9 from 17.08. to 05.09.1941. I could not find anything about an earlier takeover, although the KTB says that Hoth would get a Sonderaufgabe outside of his replenishing Panzergruppe (mopping up after the Smolensk battle etc.) and that he was not happy about it.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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genstab
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby genstab » 12 May 2017 15:16

I must have missed that. But I can't understand where Kirchubel came up with the date 5 August for Hoth's relief of Strauß. Would anyone have Gen Strauß's Generalskartei so we can see what it has about his absence and return- or the 9. Armee KTB?

Best regads,
Bill in Cleveland

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 12 May 2017 16:15

I have it, but the Generalskartei does usually only show official appointments, at least before the cards were written in 1944. Periods of illness and leave are not listed. The best source is the KTB, and even that is silent sometimes. In that case, hints may still be found in the Anlagen.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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genstab
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby genstab » 13 May 2017 00:54

I envy your mastery of all the sources I can't afford to get hold of. Maybe someone will research this further. Thanks for the background.

Best,
Bill in CeLveland

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 17 May 2017 21:04

14. Armee
01.09.1939 – 13.10.1939 Generaloberst Wilhelm List
21.11.1943 – 07.06.1944 Generaloberst Eberhard von Mackensen
07.06.1944 – 19.10.1944 General der Panzertruppe Joachim Lemelsen (bis 01.09.1944 mFb)
19.10.1944 – 24.10.1944 General der Panzertruppe Fridolin von Senger und Etterlin (mFb)
24.10.1944 – 22.11.1944 General der Artillerie Heinz Ziegler (mstFb)
23.11.1944 – 06.12.1944 General der Panzertruppe Traugott Herr (mstFb)
06.12.1944 – 16.02.1945 General der Infanterie Kurt von Tippelskirch (mstFb)
16.02.1945 – 02.05.1945 General der Panzertruppe Joachim Lemelsen
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

histan
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby histan » 17 May 2017 21:30

"General der Panzertruppe Hube übernimmt für den zur Erholung beurlaubten Oberbefehlshaber General der Infanterie Hollidt die Führung der Armee."
KTB AOK 6 dated 12.04.1943

New stand-in for AOK 6.

Regards

John

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby Rossano » 18 May 2017 07:37

Then does anybody know who commanded Hube' s XIV.PzK as deputy or did Hube command both together ?

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby histan » 18 May 2017 09:10

Date wrong - should be 26.04.1943

Sorry for my mistake

John

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 18 May 2017 19:01

Thanks for the tip, John! As the next volume shows, Hube was replaced by Obstfelder on 18 May, and Hollidt returned on the 20th.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby histan » 18 May 2017 19:30

Hi askropp

I should have known you would have this under control. :)

Regards

John

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby Rossano » 18 May 2017 20:24

askropp wrote:Thanks for the tip, John! As the next volume shows, Hube was replaced by Obstfelder on 18 May, and Hollidt returned on the 20th.


Hello Askropp
I don' t understand, John wrote that Hube left his Korps on 26.4.43 and You write that v. Obstfelder replaced Hube on 18.5 (until 20.5 or later ?), so who replaced Hube from 26.4 to 18.5 ?
Then, did Hube return to his Korps on 20.5 too (like Hollidt to his Armee) or later ?
Thanks, Rossano

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Postby askropp » 18 May 2017 20:28

I was talking about AOK 6. Obstfelder took over as Hollidt's Stellvertreter when Hube left. I don't know what happened at XIV. PzK.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!


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