German army commanders of WW2

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
histan
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by histan » 18 May 2017 20:40

FS to H Gr D dated 01.05.1943 states
"Für die Dauer der Abwesenheit des Gen.d.Pz.Tr. Hube wird Gen.d.Pz.Tr. Geyr von Schweppenburg, mit seiner Vertretung beauftragt."

and his Beurteilung shows:
03.05.1943 - 20.05.1943 mdF XIV. Pz.Korps beauftr.

Regards

John

Rossano
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 18 May 2017 20:47

askropp wrote:I was talking about AOK 6. Obstfelder took over as Hollidt's Stellvertreter when Hube left. I don't know what happened at XIV. PzK.
Sorry for the misunderstanding

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 18 May 2017 20:57

histan wrote:FS to HGr D dated 01.05.1943 states
"Für die Dauer der Abwesenheit des Gen.d.Pz.Tr. Hube wird Gen.d.Pz.Tr. Geyr von Schweppenburg mit seiner Vertretung beauftragt."

and his Beurteilung shows:
03.05.1943 - 20.05.1943 m.d.F. XIV. Pz.Korps beauftr.

Regards

John
Thanks John, very good ! Rossano
P.S.: By the way, remaining with the XIV. PzK., I have contradictory data later.
From Balck' s biography : he gave the Korps back to Hube on 08.10.43
From v. Senger' s Biography : he (and not Hube) took over the Korps on 08.10.43
From the HPA-Korpskarte v. Senger took over the Korps on 25.10.43 m.F.b.
Which is the true/exact source ???

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Stauffenberg II
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Re: German army commanders of WW2: 9. Armee

Post by Stauffenberg II » 31 May 2017 09:40

askropp wrote:Tricky because of the many changes. I would assume that Strauß also went on leave some time between the Westfeldzug and Barbarossa.

9. Armee
14.05.1940 – 30.05.1940 Generaloberst Johannes Blaskowitz
30.05.1940 – 15.01.1942 General der Infanterie (19.07.1940 Generaloberst) Adolf Strauß
15.01.1942 – 23.05.1942 General der Panzertruppe (28.02.1942 Generaloberst) Walter Model
23.05.1942 – 02.06.1942 General der Infanterie Albrecht Schubert (mdstvFb)
02.06.1942 – 08.08.1942 General der Panzertruppe Heinrich von Vietinghoff (mdstvFb)
08.08.1942 – 19.03.1943 Generaloberst Walter Model
19.03.1943 – 30.03.1943 General der Artillerie Robert Martinek (mdstvFb)
30.03.1943 – 17.04.1943 General der Panzertruppe Josef Harpe (mdstvFb)
17.04.1943 – 20.05.1943 Generaloberst Walter Model
20.05.1943 – 11.06.1943 General der Panzertruppe Josef Harpe (mdstvFb)
11.06.1943 – 05.11.1943 Generaloberst Walter Model
05.11.1943 – 03.05.1944 General der Panzertruppe (20.04.1944 Generaloberst) Josef Harpe
03.05.1944 – 22.05.1944 General der Infanterie Friedrich Wiese (mdstvFb)
22.05.1944 – 26.06.1944 General der Infanterie Hans Jordan (mdFb)
26.06.1944 – 27.06.1944 General der Artillerie Helmuth Weidling (mdstvFb)
27.06.1944 – 21.09.1944 General der Panzertruppe Nikolaus von Vormann (mdFb)
21.09.1944 – 19.01.1945 General der Panzertruppe Smilo Freiherr von Lüttwitz (mdFb)
19.01.1945 – 01.05.1945 General der Infanterie Theodor Busse (mdFb)
Dear Askropp,

there is obviously a widely spreaded error included re Blaskowitz/Strauß. NARA T-78 R 816 clearly shows that Oberost was renamed 9. Armee on 14.05.1940. However already on 14.05.1940 Strauß became Oberbefehlshaber and Blaskowitz obviously went into FR. This is also confirmed by the entries of Stülpnagel, showing that he was serving as O Qu I until 13.05.1940 and already as Kom. Gen. II. A. K. on 14.05.1940.

I know that the 30.05. date is widely spreaded (even in the Karteikarte Stülpnagel), maybe Strauß and Stülpnagel both were acting as interim commanders, to be appointed on 30.05. only.

Jürgen

histan
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by histan » 31 May 2017 11:03

But there is this entry in Halder's diary for 28.05.1940
"a) Die Reihenfolge des AOKs wird goutiert. Blaskowitz soll ausseheiden. Ersatz Stauß, dessen Ersatz von Stülpnagel."

and for 29.05.1940
"ObdH empfängt Blaskowitz und teilt ihm die Entscheidung des Führers mit, nach der er das AOK niederlegen soll."

which suggest that the decision to replace Blaskowitz was made after 15.05.1940.

Regards

John

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Stauffenberg II
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by Stauffenberg II » 31 May 2017 12:36

Weird, so the Stellenbesetzung 10.05.40 and parts of 01.07.1940 indicating this in NARA T 78 R 816 would be wrong

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askropp
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 04 Jun 2017 16:21

Difficult, as I have not a single page of the KTB.

15. Armee
25.02.1941 – 22.10.1941 Generaloberst Curt Haase
22.10.1941 – xx.xx.1942 General der Artillerie Walter Heitz (mFb)
xx.xx.1942 – 30.11.1942 Generaloberst Curt Haase
01.12.1942 – 31.07.1943 General der Panzertruppe Heinrich von Vietinghoff (bis 09.02.1943 mstFb)
01.08.1943 – 20.11.1943 Generaloberst Hans von Salmuth (mFb)
20.11.1943 – 05.12.1943 General der Panzertruppe Adolf Kuntzen (mstFb)
05.12.1943 – 13.04.1944 Generaloberst Hans von Salmuth (bis 01.01.1944 mFb)
13.04.1944 – 23.04.1944 General der Panzertruppe Adolf Kuntzen (mstFb)
23.04.1944 – 25.08.1944 Generaloberst Hans von Salmuth
25.08.1944 – 16.04.1945 General der Infanterie Gustav-Adolf von Zangen (bis 30.01.1945 mFb)
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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askropp
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 15 Jul 2017 19:58

Also no KTB, but a little more is known.

16. Armee
22.10.1939 – 02.09.1943 General der Infanterie (19.07.1940 Generaloberst, 01.02.1943 Generalfeldmarschall) Ernst Busch
02.09.1943 – 06.10.1943 General der Artillerie Christian Hansen (mstFb)
06.10.1943 – 29.10.1943 Generalfeldmarschall Ernst Busch
29.10.1943 – 01.04.1944 General der Artillerie Christian Hansen (bis 04.11.1943 mFb)
01.04.1944 – 07.05.1944 General der Infanterie Paul Laux (mstFb)
07.05.1944 – 03.07.1944 General der Artillerie Christian Hansen
03.07.1944 – 30.08.1944 General der Infanterie Paul Laux (bis 15.07.1944 mstFb, danach mFb)
31.08.1944 – 26.01.1945 General der Infanterie Carl Hilpert (bis 13.09.1944 mstFb, danach mFb)
26.01.1945 – 30.01.1945 General der Infanterie Wilhelm Hasse (mstFb)
30.01.1945 – 10.03.1945 General der Infanterie Carl Hilpert
10.03.1945 – 13.03.1945 General der Infanterie Ernst-Anton von Krosigk (mstFb)
13.03.1945 – 05.04.1945 General der Infanterie Carl Hilpert
06.04.1945 – 10.04.1945 General der Infanterie Ernst-Anton von Krosigk (mFb)
10.04.1945 – 08.05.1945 General der Gebirgstruppe Friedrich Volckamer von Kirchensittenbach (mFb)

Things got a little confusing when the OB of HGr Nord / Kurland changed frequently in 1945 and Hilpert was mstFb HGr each time.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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askropp
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 03 Jan 2018 19:59

Postscript to AOK 2 & AOK 4: both armies were discontinued on 10.04.1945 (not 7 April), with the former being renamed AOK Ostpreußen (ironically, all of its remaining units ended up in Westpreußen at the war's end).
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Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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askropp
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 14 Jan 2018 12:31

Relatively well documented for most of the time, but little infomation on the last year.

17. Armee
20.12.1940 - 10.10.1941 General der Infanterie Carl-Heinrich von Stülpnagel
10.10.1941 - 16.01.1942 Generaloberst Hermann Hoth
16.01.1942 - 20.01.1942 General der Infanterie Viktor von Schwedler (mstFb)
20.01.1942 - 24.04.1942 Generaloberst Hermann Hoth
24.04.1942 - 01.06.1942 General der Infanterie Hans von Salmuth (mstFb)
02.06.1942 - 20.05.1943 Generaloberst Richard Ruoff
20.05.1943 - 06.06.1943 General der Artillerie Maximilian de Angelis (mstFb)
06.06.1943 - xx.xx.1943 General der Pioniere Erwin Jaenecke (bis 08.10.1943 mFb)
xx.xx.1943 - xx.xx.1943 General der Gebirgstruppe Rudolf Konrad (mstFb)
xx.xx.1943 - 28.04.1944 General der Pioniere (30.01.1944 Generaloberst) Erwin Jaenecke
28.04.1944 - 28.05.1944 General der Infanterie Karl Allmendinger (bis 01.05.1944 mstFb, danach mFb)
28.05.1944 - 13.06.1944 General der Artillerie Walter Hartmann (mstFb)
25.07.1944 - 30.03.1945 General der Infanterie Friedrich Schulz (bis 30.01.1945 mFb)
30.03.1945 - 08.05.1945 General der Infanterie Wilhelm Hasse (mFb)

If anybody has something to add on Konrad's tenure or on the turbulent time before and after the fall of the Krim, please step forward.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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genstab
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by genstab » 14 Jan 2018 17:14

Askropp, I have Gen. Art. Ferdinand Schörner from 2-3-44 to 14-3-44 (from a Dieter post)
Best,
Bill

histan
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by histan » 14 Jan 2018 17:42

These are the additions that I have.

Carl-Heinrich von Stülpnagel was told in December 1940 that he had been selected to command 17.Armee but his appointment was not announced until 08.02.1941 and was m.W.v. 15.02.1941. So 17.Armee was without an official OB until February 1941 and no OB is shown in the Stellenbesetzung for 25.01.1941.

When 17.Armee took control of troops on 01.01.1941 a commander was needed and Hermann Geyer Kom.Gen. IX. AK was given the job until Carl-Heinrich von Stülpnagel arrived on 22.02.1941.

Carl-Heinrich von Stülpnagel went on leave between 26.03.1941 and 06.04.1941 with Hernann Geyer standing in for him.

I have no information on Rudolf Konrad standing in at some time in 1943 but he did stand in between 21.01.1944 and 07.02.1944 while Jaenecke was away on duty and leave.

Extracts from relevant documents:
KTB IX AK
"Ab 1.1.1941 wurde das Gen.Kdo dem AOK 17 unterstellt. Das noch kein OB ernannt ist, führt der Kommandierende General des IX. AK der Armee."

AOK 17 KTB dated 22.02.1941
"22.2.41 Entreffen des Oberbefehlshabers General von Stülpnagel."

AOK 17 Iia Tätigkeitsbericht dated 22.02.1941
"22.2.41 Befehl zur Übernahme durch den OB Gen d Inf von Stülpnagel durch Fernsch.u. Armeetagesbefehl den unterstellen Truppen bekant gegeben."

AOK 17 II a Tätigkeitsbericht dated 24.03.1941
"24.3.41 Der OB ist vom 26.3 bis 6.4.41 beurlaubt. Vertreter: Kom Gen des IX AK, Gen d Inf Geyer"

AOK 17 II a Tätigkeitsbericht dated 17.01.1944
OB wird zu einer Besprechung nach Posen befohlen. Für die Dauer übernimmt Gen. d. Geb.Tr. Konrad die Vertretung.

KTB AOK 17 dated 22.01.1944
Abflug OB zu Heeresgruppe und OKH

KTB AOK 17 dated 07.02.1944
"Wiedereintreffen des OB vom Urlaub und Dienstreise, sowie des Chefs, Generalmajor von Xylander, nach seiner Genesung."

IIa Tätigkeitsbericht dated 07.02.1944
OB unterbricht Urlaub und kehrt zurück mit Generalmajor von Xylander.

Regards

John

PS No evidence from either the KTB or the IIa Tätigkeitsbericht that Schörner was in command during that period.

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askropp
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 14 Jan 2018 17:59

@Bill, I assume you are referring to this post. My objections voiced at the bottom of that thread are still valid. I repeat:
May I ask which original sources confirm Schörner's presence on Crimea? The KTB AOK 17 does not mention any change of command during March 1944 while it mentions the coming and going of countless junior officers. The KTB was signed by Generaloberst Jaenecke in July 1944, and it is obviously him to whom the KTB refers when "Der OB" is mentioned. In addition, the KTB frequently mentions General Konrad as present with his Korps on the Krim, and Konrad would have been senior to Schörner.
When Allmendinger replaced Jaenecke in April, Konrad was fired (by Schörner, meanwhile a Generaloberst!) to prevent any possible squabble between them. It is hard to believe he would have been serving under Schörner while he was still his senior. Also, although Schörner was named Chef NSFSt mit Wirkung vom 14.03.1944, I believe he was already involved in the preparations for that job after he left XXXX. PzK. Dieter, if you (or anybody else) remember the source of the Schörner claim, please tell us! (NARA T-312 R-747 with the signed Armeebefehle of that period could help, but it is not available.)

P.S. Of course, Schörner was a General der Gebirgstruppe, not a General der Artillerie.

@John, thank you for you always valuable input. For the initial period, maybe the Chef was once again managing affairs until Geyer took over? On Konrad, in his Beurteilung Jaenecke wrote that he was acting OB "zweimal für eine Woche" (without date). Doubtless, the tenure mentioned by you was the one occasion.
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by Dieter Zinke » 14 Jan 2018 18:49

askropp wrote: ... Dieter, if you (or anybody else) remember the source of the Schörner claim, please tell us!
Lieber Meister,
I fear my doubtful information comes probably from the long time ago ["Zettelkästen"/card boxes], in which I put no value on the documentation of my sources :(

Dieter Z.

histan
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by histan » 14 Jan 2018 18:59

Lieber Dieter

Not so!

This information is contained in both Mehner and Wegmann & Zweng but also, I think the original source, in Keilig.

Until very recently good enough for anyone.

Regards

John

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