German High Commanders of WW2

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
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genstab
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by genstab » 21 Dec 2018 01:33

Thank you both- that was a great help!
Best,
Bill

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askropp
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 21 Dec 2018 12:54

test.jpg
Among the files of Luftflotte 6 (NARA T-321 R-51) is this list of HGr Mitte commanders dated 3 April 1945. As you see, Hasse is listed as mFb PzAOK 1 and Henrici as OB (not even mFb!) AOK 17. We know from his Karteikarte that Hasse was indeed earmarked for PzAOK 1, but when he arrived from his leave (his last command had been in Kurland), he took over AOK 17 instead. Henrici, who had been the ranking KG in AOK 17 under Schulz, was probably once more vetoed by Hitler. But as Henrici is listed here, and Karl Arndt is listed as his Vertreter at XXXX. PzK, and Oberst d.R. Albrecht is listed as Arndt's Vertreter at 359. ID (on a different page), there is a possibilty that all these officers were indeed acting commanders between Schulz and Hasse. If so, the timeframe must have been very short, as none of those assignments made it into the unit cards from T-78 R-896.
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Rossano
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 21 Dec 2018 14:12

Hello Askropp
From which frame number (in T321 R51) is this list pls. ?
Thanks, Rossano

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askropp
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 21 Dec 2018 17:07

Pics 0667-0670.
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Rossano
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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by Rossano » 21 Dec 2018 17:16

Kind of You....many thanks !

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Re: German army commanders of WW2

Post by histan » 22 Dec 2018 00:53

Good find askropp.

In FMS B-583, Schulz states "up to 1 April 1945 I was the Supreme Commander of 17 Army in Silesia. On 1 April 1945 I received orders to assume command of Heeresgruppe G, and to report to the Reich Chancellery in Berlin to receive further orientation by Hitler in person."

So it fits in that Henrici assumed temporary command until the permanent replacement arrived. A local arrangement so no order from the HPA and so no entry in the Army card.

Regards

John

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Re: German army [AOK] commanders of WW2

Post by Jeremy Dixon » 13 Jan 2019 12:22

06.04.1945 – 10.04.1945 General der Infanterie Ernst-Anton von Krosigk (mFb)
This couldn't have been as Krosigk was killed in March 1945

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Re: German army [AOK] commanders of WW2

Post by Rudolf44 » 13 Jan 2019 12:33

Jeremy Dixon wrote:
13 Jan 2019 12:22
06.04.1945 – 10.04.1945 General der Infanterie Ernst-Anton von Krosigk (mFb)
This couldn't have been as Krosigk was killed in March 1945
Not at all ! If you use the search button you will find this !
viewtopic.php?p=1382903#p1382903

I have today examined the HPA file for von Krosigk and it states:

10.04.1945 gefallen!
07.04.1945 mFb 16 Armee Order No K1798
30.01.1945 KG XVI AK Order No K1159
15.11.1944 mFb XVI AK Order No K564

and contains this dated 15.04.1945 from Hilpert as mFb H Gr Kurland - "Gen d Inf von Krosigk hat das XVI AK von 14.11.44 - 6.4.45 geführt, ist am 7.4.45 mit der Führung de 16 Armee beauftragt worden und am 10.04.45 durch Bombenvolltreffer in Kandau (Kurland) gefallen."

This ties in with the HPA file for Hilpert
07.04.1945 mFb H Gr Kurland Order No K1798

and with the HPA file for Gottfried Weber
07.04.1945 mFb XVI AK Order No K1798

Whilst I accept that Keilig and Bradley must have a good reason for giving 16.03.1945 as his date of death, I also find it hard to believe that HPA would issue a change of command order that included a man who was already dead!
Rudolf

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Jeremy Dixon
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Re: German army [AOK] commanders of WW2

Post by Jeremy Dixon » 13 Jan 2019 12:51

Scherzer, internet web pages and all books give the date of death as 16th March 1945.Tracesofwar.com gives date of death as 6th March 1945 !

Lots of confusion near the end of the war and so I think it could be possible for him to have died and then been made [on paper] commander !?

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Re: German army [AOK] commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 13 Jan 2019 14:34

I beg your pardon, Jeremy, but if we don't accept that primary sources are nearly always superior to "internet web pages and books", all research using NARA and BA-MA documents becomes useless. Yes, actual command dates may differ from official ones, but we are talking about a death case here. The HPA says that Krosigk died on 10 April, and Hilpert (who must have had daily contact with his subordinate) says that he died on 10 April. What are we supposed to believe if he would have died in March? That a clone commanded in his place for several weeks? That he was killed by a stealth fighter dropping a stealth bomb, so no one noticed? Or that his death was covered up by XVI. AK staffers, and neither Hilpert nor the divisions or the neighboring Korps suspected he was missing? This is ridiculous. There was no "confusion" in Kurland until the very last day of the war, and even in those areas where there was confusion, I don't know any case of an army commander disappearing. Note that the adherents of the March theory also give a wrong place of death (the non-existing "Kanden" instead of Kandau).

Regards,
Albert
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Jeremy Dixon
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Re: German army [AOK] commanders of WW2

Post by Jeremy Dixon » 13 Jan 2019 14:49

OK. So looks like I may be wrong...no need to be sarcastic is there !

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askropp
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Re: German army [AOK] commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 13 Jan 2019 15:05

Jeremy, it was not my intention to imply any fault on your part. I don't even blame the people who started the March theory, because they did not have the sources we have today. But logic dictates they must be (most probably) wrong.

As for the plan to restart this thread, I ponder extending it to Heeresgruppen and equivalent positions in all services.

Regards,
Albert
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Jeremy Dixon
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Re: German army [AOK] commanders of WW2

Post by Jeremy Dixon » 13 Jan 2019 15:19

OK I understand, I was going with the majority on this but I see your point and have adjusted my records. BUT there is still no need to adopt a sarcastic view.
That a clone commanded in his place for several weeks? That he was killed by a stealth fighter dropping a stealth bomb, so no one noticed?
:D :D not I don't believe this at all

regards Jeremy

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askropp
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by askropp » 01 Mar 2019 18:36

As I already said, I am going to expand this thread to all high commands of army level or above. This will also allow me to update the AOK database, but I will begin with the OKW.
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Re: German High Commanders of WW2

Post by graveland » 01 Mar 2019 18:42

Terrific stuff, askropp! :thumbsup:

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