need pic of Günther Rüdel

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nguyenx
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need pic of Günther Rüdel

Post by nguyenx » 27 May 2003 11:36

I like to see Günther Rüdel, was he generalobers of luffwafe?

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Glenn2438
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Rüdel

Post by Glenn2438 » 27 May 2003 12:07

nguyenx,

Generaloberst Günther Rüdel

Regards
Glenn
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askropp
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Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by askropp » 31 Aug 2013 19:17

Image
http://ww2gravestone.com/sites/default/ ... 025_14.jpg

Is this photo of Günther Rüdel authentic? The collar patches seem to be red, but they ought to be white.
Last edited by askropp on 31 Aug 2013 21:15, edited 1 time in total.
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askropp
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by askropp » 31 Aug 2013 19:31

Image
http://www.reocities.com/axisbio/Luftwa ... enther.jpg
Image
http://forum.axishistory.com/download/file.php?id=16581

I now found two other photos of Rüdel, one is actually from this website and was posted in 2003.
Strangely, Rüdels collar patches seem to be red in one picture and white in the other!
Last edited by askropp on 31 Aug 2013 21:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Marcus
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by Marcus » 31 Aug 2013 19:48

Please remember to list the sources of the photos you post.

/Marcus

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John G.
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by John G. » 31 Aug 2013 22:51

Sometime durning the latter stages of the war, regulations changed to allow Luftwaffe Generals of Flak and Medical Corps (not sure about any other branches...) to wear appropriate colored backgrounds to thier collar tabs ......but very few General's ever upgraded thier tabs....and white was worn by most until the end of the war....obviously G. Rüdel did "upgrade" his ....
Sorry, can't find a referance, but pretty sure....
John G.

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askropp
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by askropp » 01 Sep 2013 09:50

I considered some background of that kind, but ... if I change a Generalmajor's collar patch to Waffenfarbe, how would I distinguish it from a Major's patch (same for Generalleutnant / Oberstleutnant and General der Flieger etc. / Oberst)? It would only work with a Generaloberst or GFM. A special rule only for Rüdel? Was he that important?
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Ian Hulley
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by Ian Hulley » 01 Sep 2013 11:03

If you Yahoo image search Günther Rüdel you'll see an image of what is allegedly his tunic .... don't click on it though as it's a dead end link. It has the red-backed general tabs as John has said.

Ian

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John G.
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by John G. » 01 Sep 2013 11:22

askropp wrote:I considered some background of that kind, but ... if I change a Generalmajor's collar patch to Waffenfarbe, how would I distinguish it from a Major's patch (same for Generalleutnant / Oberstleutnant and General der Flieger etc. / Oberst)? It would only work with a Generaloberst or GFM. A special rule only for Rüdel? Was he that important?
Not a special rank for Rüdel....others are known, examples of the tabs occassionally turn up. Just latewar, few Generals upgraded unless promoted or "Bought a new uniform"...and the "white" remained "valid" for all branches at the same time....(at least had a "wear out period" which didn't last long enough to "wear out".)
To answer your question:
The Generals ranks were embroidered in GOLD bullion (or Cellon) and had GOLD piping, the "field grade officers" tabs are embroidered in SILVER bullion and SILVER piped...... I doubt anyone running into a LW GENERAL would have had any trouble identifying his status and rank even if, as tabs were only one means of displaying rank.
John G.

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askropp
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by askropp » 01 Sep 2013 13:27

You are right, the gold would make all the difference. I found a colored version of the first photograph with silver eagles, but I suspect it has been inaccurately colored from a black/white original. The tunic clearly shows they should be gold, just as the wings and eagles on the white patches. Thank you!
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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by Dieter Zinke » 04 May 2018 23:14

Even if you accidentally stumble over an ancient, unresolved case, you can still be the desired savior, bringing light into the darkness. Please take a look at https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 0&start=15 and it will finally give you the certainty that you've been jingling for a long time in vain.
Look at the shoulder boards and collar patches of the mysterious Generaloberst and you'll be refreshed by the Tree of Knowledge.
All's well that ends well!
05.07.1940 Chef des Flak-Regiments 5.
(as Generaloberst Rüdel wore red collar-patches and also shoulder boards on a red colored underlay with the numeral "8" denoting his honorary connection with his regiment).
Cheers
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askropp
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by askropp » 05 May 2018 16:12

Besten Dank, Dieter! In fact, you have already brought "light into the darkness" without even knowing it. I noticed your very informative RKKVK thread quite a time ago and discovered the background of Rüdel's insignia. I just wonder why there are photos in which he appears to wear standard collar patches?
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Laurence Strong
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by Laurence Strong » 05 May 2018 17:32

According to the order LV 44, No.561 dated 25 April 1944 some of the accouterments were altered to distinguish some generals from the line generals. The underlay of shoulder boards, collar patches, lapels of the greatcoat and undress tunic as well as the piping was altered to show the branch color in lieu of the white worn by other generals.

This applied to:

Medical Officers - dark blue
Administrative officers -light blue
Judicial officers - wine red
Engineer officers - pink

The wear out period was terminated 1 October 1944. The piping and stripes on trousers remained the same......



Cheers
Larry

Joseph_C
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Re: Insignia on Günther Rüdel photo

Post by Joseph_C » 21 Sep 2021 18:42

And what dou you think about Rüdel's ribbon bar:


Image

- Prussian Iron Cross 1914
- Prussian Hohenzollern House Order with swords
- Bavarian Military merit Order with swords (4th class)
- Hanseatic Cross (Hamburg)
- Honour Cross 1914-18
- ???????????

- Wehrmacht Long Service Awards (25 years)
- ??????????????
- Austrian Order of the Iron Crown with war decoration
- Austrian Military Merit Cross
- ?????????????

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askropp
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Generaloberst Günther Rüdel (1883-1950)

Post by askropp » 26 Jan 2022 14:26

I still have a problem with Rüdel's ranking after he joined the Luftwaffe. :?

As a Generalmajor, Rüdel held the RDA of 01.10.1934 (1) in the Heer while Kesselring held just the same rank and number in the RLM, Wever being the (2). When Rüdel joined the Luftwaffe in 1935, his ranking must have been changed. He could have gotten the 01.10.1934 (3), but he had been senior to Kesselring and Wever as an Oberst. The same problem arises when all three officers were promoted to GL in April 1936. Contemporary announcements (e.g. in "Luftsport") suggest the order Rüdel, Kesselring, Wever. In that case, Rüdel would have been the (1) and should have ranked the other two officers as GM. But then there was Wilberg who according to Hildebrand also got an RDA of 01.04.1936 and who should have ranked all three because he had been a GM since 1932. In that case, Rüdel could have been the (4) and thus could have been ranked behind Wever as a GM. Only when they became full generals, Kesselring now definitely ranked Rüdel and Wilberg (Wever having died).
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