The Generals of 1945

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
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Stauffenberg II
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by Stauffenberg II » 23 Mar 2018 09:52

Dear Askropp,

keep up the good work mate!

A question to complete 30.01.1945 promos, coming from an older thread:
Re: Generals Officers Seniority Dates (RDA)

Postby Stauffenberg II » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:10 pm

Oberst Zorn was KIA in Feb. 1945. As the 01.02.1945 promo date was not used, did he get promoted to GM retroactively 30.01.1945?

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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 23 Mar 2018 14:50

Yes, he was. I omitted him because he was never a living general. He was probably nachträglich promoted in April 1945 (Order Nr. 1050).
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 24 Mar 2018 12:21

Generale mit RDA vom 01.03.1945

Generale
Theodor Petsch (Infanterie) - Order Nr. 651
Siegfried Thomaschki (Artillerie) - Order Nr. 710
Anton Freiherr von Mauchenheim genannt Bechtolsheim (Artillerie) - Order Nr. 712
Felix Schwalbe (Infanterie) - Order Nr. 713
Otto Hitzfeld (Infanterie) - Order Nr. 709
Mortimer von Kessel (Panzertruppe) - Order Nr. 707
Erich Abraham (Infanterie) - Order Nr. 711

Generalleutnante
Rudolf Meltzer - Order Nr. 654
Wolfgang Hauser - Order Nr. 901
Gerhard Feyerabend - Order Nr. 656
Wolfgang Thomale - Order Nr. 655
Hermann Haehnle - Order Nr. 910
Adolf Raegener - Order Nr. 784
Friedrich Foertsch
Gustav Hundt - Order Nr. 780
Joseph von Radowitz - Order Nr. 514
Karl Arning - Order Nr. 963
Rudolf Huebner - Order Nr. 896

Generalmajore
(1) Gustav Dürrstein
(2) Friedrich Werther
(3) Paul Block
(4) Rudolf Petersen
(5) Josef Meuther
(6) Hermann Grothe
(7) Kurt Paape
(8) Hermann Konitzky
Werner von Boltenstern - Order Nr. 769
Claus Kühl - Order Nr. 714
Hugo Dempwolff - Order Nr. 730
Eugen Kurz - Order Nr. 962
Erich Geißler - Order Nr. 653
Franz Haas - Order Nr. 923
Konrad Barde - Order Nr. 711
Hermann Schulte-Heuthaus - Order Nr. 708
Richard Schmidt - Order Nr. 708
Alexander Möckel - Order Nr. 711
Hellmuth Laegeler
Peter von der Groeben

Rudolf Wulf - Order Nr. 738
Karl Göbel - Order Nr. 707
Rudolf Demme - Order Nr. 710
Burkhart Müller-Hildebrand - Order Nr. 922
Meinrad von Lauchert - Order Nr. 920

Wolf Ewert - Order Nr. 711

Generalmajor d.R.
Werner Mummert - Order Nr. 891

The claimed promotion of Hans Boelsen to GL is very unlikely. He had been abqualifiziert, was ill in the FR in March and signed his later FMS writings as GM. The promotion of Karl Arning was issued by the HPA, but withheld (not cancelled) at the request of Schörner. Karl Göbel was probably already dead when his promotion (not intended to be nachträglich) was issued, although there is some doubt about his date of death.
Last edited by askropp on 24 Mar 2018 17:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by Stauffenberg II » 24 Mar 2018 14:22

Thanks, excellent.

To complete 01.03.1945 do you have any evidence that GM Frhr. v. Elverfeldt (KIA 06.03.1945) was promoted to GL posth. as per as 01.03.1945?

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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 24 Mar 2018 22:34

I believe he was, but I have no original source for it.

What I have is the following:

Helmuth Hufenbach
01.04.1945 Generalmajor mit RDA vom 01.03.1945 (nachträglich)
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 28 Mar 2018 15:19

Generale mit RDA vom 15.03.1945

General
Georg Jauer (Panzertruppe) - Order Nr. 909

Generalleutnant
Oldwig von Natzmer - Order Nr. 948


Generale mit RDA vom 16.03.1945

Generale
Hans von Tettau (Infanterie) - Order Nr. 1097
Friedrich Fangohr (Infanterie) - Order Nr. 1282
Horst von Mellenthin (Artillerie) - Order Nr. 1095

Generalleutnante
Franz Geiger - Order Nr. 1121
Eugen Wurster - Order Nr. 1223
Paul Schricker
Hans Mikosch - Order Nr. 961
Fritz Polack - Order Nr. 1260
Joseph Rintelen - Order Nr. 947
Walter Aßmann - Order Nr. 1096
Eugen König

Generalmajore
Ernst Knebel - Order Nr. 960
Georg Seegers


General mit RDA vom 25.03.1945

Generalmajor
Johannes Hölz

As I already mentioned in the Natzmer thread, his promotion may have been ohne RDA (in this case, 15 March would be only the Wirkung date). Friedrich Fangohr was grouped together with Tettau and Mellenthin in the same Orderanweisung, but for some reason his promotion was apparently withheld for several weeks. The order that finally promoted him is one of the last documented in the Generalskartei and must have been issued in mid to late April. Another problem that I described in the Polack thread is the mentioning of two conflicting RDA for that officer. I would assume that the date of 16.04. listed on the unit card of 29. PzGrD was an error. But the high order number indicates that the promotion was issued around that time, and as we have a confirmed promotion mit RDA vom 17.04., 16 April cannot be excluded at the moment. Knebel was definitely dead when his promotion was issued and should have gotten a RDA vom 01.01.1945. And finally, I am doubtful about the alleged promotion of Hölz to GM. I found a reference to a document from HGr Weichsel that mentioned Hölz as an Oberst on 16.04.1945. He could have been promoted in the last days of AOK 9, but I cound find no confirmation in original sources, and if it ever happened, a RDA of 20 April would have been logical. I will start a thread on Hölz in an effort to gather information.
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 28 Mar 2018 17:26

Just for the record: a handwritten note in the "Handliste der Generalstabsoffiziere" (NARA T-78 R-46) gives the RDA of Rudolf-Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff as 30.01.1945. For the moment being, I would stick to the RDA given in the Generalskartei and on the unit card (01.03.1945), especially as the actual promotion was defintely in mid March. I know that the guy who compiled the post-war list of (fictitious) Ordnungsnummern listed Gersdorff among the 30 January promotions, but I would need more evidence than this handwritten note to discard the Karteikarten as faulty.
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by Stauffenberg II » 28 Mar 2018 19:54

Do we already know, why 15.03. and 16.03. were used as promo dates?

I understand 09.11., 30.01. and 20.04. but why the heck 15. and 16.03.?

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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 28 Mar 2018 21:06

This was doubtlessly a reference to 16 March 1935 when the "Gesetz über den Aufbau der Wehrmacht" (including the reintroduction of the conscription) was issued. Jauer's promotion was the earliest. It was probably issued on March 13 or 14, and his RDA may have been randomly chosen (as it practically amounted to "mit sofortiger Wirkung"). Natzmer was promoted alongside Rintelen, so it is difficult to explain the difference in dates. But if Natzmer's promotion is really ohne RDA, it may just be the date of issue. Of course we cannot exclude the possibility of a typo in the original Orderanweisung.
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 29 Mar 2018 21:42

There is now a Hölz thread, and new evidence makes it obvious that there was no promotion on or mit RDA vom 25.03.1945, although a promotion on 20 April cannot be fully excluded.
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 14 Apr 2018 19:25

Contrary to the Generalskartei and the unit card of AOK 7, the promotion of Rudolf-Christoph Freiherr von Gersdorff was apparently backdated:
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by graveland » 14 Apr 2018 19:59

Thank you, askropp.

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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 15 Apr 2018 12:01

The following messages confirm my theory voiced in the preliminary remarks that planmäßige promotions were issued with a RDA and Ordnungsnummer while bevorzugte Beförderungen were issued without. Instead, RDA and Ordnungsnummer were determined later when the relative seniority of all those promoted became apparent. In the vast majority of all cases, Wirkung and RDA date were identical.
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 17 Apr 2018 22:38

We now move onto slippery terrain as the continuous stream of original sources dries up during the month of April. While it is still possible to tell with sufficient certainty who got a late promotion, it is nearly impossible to tell who did not. Backdated promotions were issued during the last days of April and also during the Dönitz reign, most of them mit Wirkung und RDA vom 20.04.1945. Some were valid, some were not. A number of promotions was apparently claimed after WW2 by officers who felt they were entitled to one, or even by their families or former comrades after they had died. One could expect that things should be clearer for promotions mit Wirkung und RDA vom 01.04.1945, but this is not necessarily true for all cases. Therefore, I will first list promotions confirmed by original documents, and later I will add unconfirmed claims with a comment on their probability.
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Re: The Generals of 1945

Post by askropp » 18 Apr 2018 17:49

Generale mit RDA vom 01.04.1945 (Teil 1)

Generale
Martin Gareis (Infanterie) - Order Nr. 1004
Maximilian Grimmeiß (Artillerie) - Order Nr. 1052
Gerhard Graf von Schwerin (Panzertruppe) - Order Nr. 1005
Hermann Niehoff (Infanterie)

Generalleutnante
Edmund Blaurock
Theodor Tolsdorff


Unconfirmed claims from books or websites
Johannes Mayer to General der Infanterie
Karl Mauss to General der Panzertruppe
Rudolf Keil to Generalleutnant
Werner Heucke to Generalleutnant
Heinrich Götz to Generalleutnant

Aside from the fact that we have no original sources for a possible promotion of Mayer and Mauss to full general, both officers signed as "Generalleutnant a.D." after the war (Mayer in FMS D-048, Mauss on several portrait photos). Therefore, I don't believe that they were promoted.

While Keil had the appropriate seniority for a planmäßige Beförderung to GL, such a promotion would have been decided on early in March, and thus it should have been added to his Karteikarte. Considering that Keil had never commanded troops during WW2, I deem it unlikely he would have been promoted. Note that we have no known promotion claim for Walter Zeiß, who was also formally eligible for a planmäßige Beförderung and who had actually commanded troops at the frontline. Heucke (Harko AOK 7) and Götz (Div "Scharnhorst") were active frontline commanders until the surrender, so their promotion during the last weeks of the war appears possible (especially for the highly decorated Götz, an officer with excellent Beurteilungen). But one should expect a RDA of 20 April in that case, as most of the confirmed promotions from 1 April made it into the surviving HPA files, so I am still rather skeptical.
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