Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
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Re: Vizeadmiral z.V. Alexander Werth (1879-1942)

Post by graveland » 22 Nov 2023 13:46

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
22 Nov 2023 11:46
Vizeadmiral z.V. Alexander Werth (1879-1942)
- Türk. Medjidie Orden III. Klasse mit Schwertern und ...??? (what is the last word written?)
Türk. Medjidie Orden 3. Klasse mit Schwertern und Sp. (Spange)

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Re: Vizeadmiral z.V. Alexander Werth (1879-1942)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 22 Nov 2023 15:56

I will add some award dates from the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste. Also, Werth did NOT have the Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897 because he entered service of 7 April 1897.

askropp, please update Werth's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.
Also, delete all the text at the bottom of his award list.


Vizeadmiral z.V. Alexander Werth (1879-1942) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2184954&hi ... h#p2184954

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Annenorden III. Klasse (10. 08. 1902)
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse (06. 05. 1912)
-Ritterkreuz I. Klasse des Königlich Norwegischen Ordens des heiligen Olaf
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Griechischen Erlöserordens (04. 05. 1914)
-Offizierskreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus (16. 05. 1914)
-Krone zum Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse (26. 07. 1914)
-Ritterkreuz I. Klasse des Großherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen mit Schwertern
-Königlich Bayerischer Militärverdienstorden IV. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern
-Fürstlich Reußisches (jüngere Linie) Ehrenkreuz II. Klasse mit Krone und Schwertern
-Großherrlich Osmanischer Medschidié-Orden III. Klasse mit Säbeln
-Großherrlich Osmanische Kriegsmedaille (Eiserner Halbmond)
-Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse
-Herzoglich Braunschweigisches Kriegsverdienstkreuz II. Klasse
-Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz II. Klasse
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz I. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern

Please also add this new photo of Werth:
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Vizeadmiral Paul Wever (1893-1944)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 23 Nov 2023 21:23

Vizeadmiral Paul Wever (1893-1944)

- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (20. 10. 1939)
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse (05. 12. 1939)
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. und I. Klasse mit Schwertern (1942)
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Re: Vizeadmiral Paul Wever (1893-1944)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 24 Nov 2023 11:00

askropp, please update Wever's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.
Also, delete all the text at the bottom of his award list.


Vizeadmiral Paul Wever (1893-1944) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2184972&hi ... r#p2184972

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (30. 06. 1916)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
-Ritterkreuz II. Klasse des Königlich Württembergischen Friedrichs-Ordens mit Schwertern
-Großherrlich Osmanische Kriegsmedaille (Eiserner Halbmond)
-U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918) (03. 03. 1919)
-Königlich Spanischer Orden für Verdienste zur See II. Klasse mit weißem Abzeichen (23. 01. 1932, Approved on 28. 03. 1934)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (15. 10. 1934)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis II. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse (01. 04. 1937)
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen St. Alexander-Ordens (31. 03. 1939)
-Spanienkreuz in Silber ohne Schwerter (06. 06. 1939)
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (20. 10. 1939)
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse (05. 12. 1939)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern (1942)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern (1942)
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Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 24 Nov 2023 20:03

Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

First column:
- Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse (28. 07. 1906)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
- Ritterkreuz des Königlich Preußischen Hausordens von Hohenzollern mit Schwertern (04. 12. 1917)
- Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz

Second column:
- M. G. 3. (this is the Ritterkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens)
- Bremisches Hanseatenkreuz
- Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz
- Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz (10. 07. 1916)
- Ritterkreuz I. Klasse des Großherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen mit Schwertern
- Großherrlich Osmanische Kriegsmedaille (Eiserner Halbmond) (1918)
- Verdienstkreuz des ungarischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19) (1926)
- Verdienstkreuz des österreichischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19)
- Österreichisches Militärverdienstkreuz (I think this is his k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Militärverdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration. Do you agree?)

1. Even though it appears the award date "10. 07. 1916" is for the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz, this cannot be because in the 1916 Rangliste (which was published on 1 August 1916) only the Bremisches Hanseatenkreuz is listed for Wieting. If he was awarded the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz on 10. 07. 1916, then it would've been listed also.
The award date must then be for his Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse, which is also listed in the 1916 Rangliste.
Do you agree?


2. The 1926 Rangliste lists "ÖR3K" for Wieting. This is the k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Offiziersehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz mit der Kriegsdekoration. Before, I thought this was odd because he was not an Arzt. But, seeing the two other Roten Kreuz entries in his Personalakte (which I will cover in more detail below), it seems he did some humanitarian work during WW1, for which he received THREE different Roten Kreuz decorations.
Most likely during the time he was the Member of the Armistice-Commission Riga and at the same time Chief of Staff of the Armistice-Commission Sevastopol and Chief of Staff of the Nautical-Technical Commission as well as Naval-Command Black Sea (17 December 1917-22 December 1918).


3. Let's first examine the following entry in his Personalakte: "Verdienstkreuz des ungarischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19) (1926)".

This decoration was established on 30 January 1922 by Miklós Horthy. See here:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrenzeic ... en_Kreuzes
It consisted of three classes:
- Verdienststern
- Verdienstkreuz (badge)
- Verdienstmedaille

Wieting was awarded the II. Klasse (Verdienstkreuz) in 1926.


4. And now the other Roten Kreuz entry: "Verdienstkreuz des österreichischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19)".

This decoration was established on 3 November 1922. There is no Wikipedia article for this decoration, but I managed to find the information about the classes, which were the same as the Austro-Hungarian Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz. Also, even though it was established in 1922, the first awardings of the decoration took place on 5 December 1934.
It consisted of four classes:
- Verdienststern
- Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse (neck decoration)
- Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (badge)
- Ehrenzeichen II. Klasse
I also found the information that the highest class (Verdienststern) was reserved for Heads of States, and actually never awarded.
See here:
https://gmic.co.uk/topic/46384-order-of ... iensstern/

Now, the Personalakte says Wieting had the "Verdienstkreuz" of this decoration. Which class is this? Because this class doesn't directly correspond to any of the actual classes of this decoration.
He must have been awarded this decoration at the end of 1934 or later (because of the reason I stated above), when he was already retired and had the rank of Char. Vizeadmiral.
I think the class he was awarded could be either the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (the same class as the Austro-Hungarian version of this decoration he received during WW1). What do you think?
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Re: Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

Post by graveland » 24 Nov 2023 21:14

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

- Österreichisches Militärverdienstkreuz (I think this is his k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Militärverdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration. Do you agree?)
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03

1. Even though it appears the award date "10. 07. 1916" is for the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz, this cannot be because in the 1916 Rangliste (which was published on 1 August 1916) only the Bremisches Hanseatenkreuz is listed for Wieting. If he was awarded the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz on 10. 07. 1916, then it would've been listed also.
The award date must then be for his Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse, which is also listed in the 1916 Rangliste.
Do you agree?
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
4. And now the other Roten Kreuz entry: "Verdienstkreuz des österreichischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19)".

This decoration was established on 3 November 1922. There is no Wikipedia article for this decoration, but I managed to find the information about the classes, which were the same as the Austro-Hungarian Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz. Also, even though it was established in 1922, the first awardings of the decoration took place on 5 December 1934.
It consisted of four classes:
- Verdienststern
- Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse (neck decoration)
- Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (badge)
- Ehrenzeichen II. Klasse
I also found the information that the highest class (Verdienststern) was reserved for Heads of States, and actually never awarded.
See here:
https://gmic.co.uk/topic/46384-order-of ... iensstern/

Now, the Personalakte says Wieting had the "Verdienstkreuz" of this decoration. Which class is this? Because this class doesn't directly correspond to any of the actual classes of this decoration.
He must have been awarded this decoration at the end of 1934 or later (because of the reason I stated above), when he was already retired and had the rank of Char. Vizeadmiral.
I think the class he was awarded could be either the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (the same class as the Austro-Hungarian version of this decoration he received during WW1). What do you think?
You are quite right.

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Re: Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 24 Nov 2023 21:17

graveland wrote:
24 Nov 2023 21:14
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

- Österreichisches Militärverdienstkreuz (I think this is his k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Militärverdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration. Do you agree?)
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03

1. Even though it appears the award date "10. 07. 1916" is for the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz, this cannot be because in the 1916 Rangliste (which was published on 1 August 1916) only the Bremisches Hanseatenkreuz is listed for Wieting. If he was awarded the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz on 10. 07. 1916, then it would've been listed also.
The award date must then be for his Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse, which is also listed in the 1916 Rangliste.
Do you agree?
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
4. And now the other Roten Kreuz entry: "Verdienstkreuz des österreichischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19)".

This decoration was established on 3 November 1922. There is no Wikipedia article for this decoration, but I managed to find the information about the classes, which were the same as the Austro-Hungarian Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz. Also, even though it was established in 1922, the first awardings of the decoration took place on 5 December 1934.
It consisted of four classes:
- Verdienststern
- Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse (neck decoration)
- Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (badge)
- Ehrenzeichen II. Klasse
I also found the information that the highest class (Verdienststern) was reserved for Heads of States, and actually never awarded.
See here:
https://gmic.co.uk/topic/46384-order-of ... iensstern/

Now, the Personalakte says Wieting had the "Verdienstkreuz" of this decoration. Which class is this? Because this class doesn't directly correspond to any of the actual classes of this decoration.
He must have been awarded this decoration at the end of 1934 or later (because of the reason I stated above), when he was already retired and had the rank of Char. Vizeadmiral.
I think the class he was awarded could be either the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (the same class as the Austro-Hungarian version of this decoration he received during WW1). What do you think?
You are quite right.
Thank you Gregg.

But you haven't answered on my question regarding the class of the "österreichischen Roten Kreuzes". Please read once again what I wrote under number "4.".
Do you think it is the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen? And why?
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Re: Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

Post by graveland » 24 Nov 2023 22:49

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 21:17
graveland wrote:
24 Nov 2023 21:14
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

- Österreichisches Militärverdienstkreuz (I think this is his k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Militärverdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration. Do you agree?)
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03

1. Even though it appears the award date "10. 07. 1916" is for the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz, this cannot be because in the 1916 Rangliste (which was published on 1 August 1916) only the Bremisches Hanseatenkreuz is listed for Wieting. If he was awarded the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz on 10. 07. 1916, then it would've been listed also.
The award date must then be for his Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse, which is also listed in the 1916 Rangliste.
Do you agree?
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
4. And now the other Roten Kreuz entry: "Verdienstkreuz des österreichischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19)".

This decoration was established on 3 November 1922. There is no Wikipedia article for this decoration, but I managed to find the information about the classes, which were the same as the Austro-Hungarian Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz. Also, even though it was established in 1922, the first awardings of the decoration took place on 5 December 1934.
It consisted of four classes:
- Verdienststern
- Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse (neck decoration)
- Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (badge)
- Ehrenzeichen II. Klasse
I also found the information that the highest class (Verdienststern) was reserved for Heads of States, and actually never awarded.
See here:
https://gmic.co.uk/topic/46384-order-of ... iensstern/

Now, the Personalakte says Wieting had the "Verdienstkreuz" of this decoration. Which class is this? Because this class doesn't directly correspond to any of the actual classes of this decoration.
He must have been awarded this decoration at the end of 1934 or later (because of the reason I stated above), when he was already retired and had the rank of Char. Vizeadmiral.
I think the class he was awarded could be either the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (the same class as the Austro-Hungarian version of this decoration he received during WW1). What do you think?
You are quite right.
Thank you Gregg.

But you haven't answered on my question regarding the class of the "österreichischen Roten Kreuzes". Please read once again what I wrote under number "4.".
Do you think it is the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen? And why?
I didn't answer because I wasn't sure the class. Most likely he received the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen class.

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Re: Vizeadmiral Hans Hubertus von Stosch (1889-1945)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 24 Nov 2023 22:59

Requin Marteau wrote:
21 Nov 2023 07:48
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
15 Nov 2023 11:27
Requin Marteau wrote:
15 Nov 2023 08:10
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
13 Nov 2023 11:46
askropp, please update von Stosch's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral Hans Hubertus von Stosch (1889-1945) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2184481&hi ... h#p2184481
-Ehrenritter des Königlich Preußischen Johanniter-Ordens
Are you sure ?
It is listed for him in the 1928 Reichsmarine Rangliste (see photo below). But it is only listed in this edition (1928). I checked all the other editions I have, and it is not listed in any of them.
Perhaps it's an error?
Should we keep it or delete it?
I don't know what to think. Registered once, then remove.
So, would you delete it (because it is only listed once and then removed, which could indicate an error), or keep it?
Last edited by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral on 24 Nov 2023 23:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 24 Nov 2023 23:00

graveland wrote:
24 Nov 2023 22:49
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 21:17
graveland wrote:
24 Nov 2023 21:14
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

- Österreichisches Militärverdienstkreuz (I think this is his k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Militärverdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration. Do you agree?)
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03

1. Even though it appears the award date "10. 07. 1916" is for the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz, this cannot be because in the 1916 Rangliste (which was published on 1 August 1916) only the Bremisches Hanseatenkreuz is listed for Wieting. If he was awarded the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz on 10. 07. 1916, then it would've been listed also.
The award date must then be for his Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse, which is also listed in the 1916 Rangliste.
Do you agree?
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
4. And now the other Roten Kreuz entry: "Verdienstkreuz des österreichischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19)".

This decoration was established on 3 November 1922. There is no Wikipedia article for this decoration, but I managed to find the information about the classes, which were the same as the Austro-Hungarian Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz. Also, even though it was established in 1922, the first awardings of the decoration took place on 5 December 1934.
It consisted of four classes:
- Verdienststern
- Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse (neck decoration)
- Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (badge)
- Ehrenzeichen II. Klasse
I also found the information that the highest class (Verdienststern) was reserved for Heads of States, and actually never awarded.
See here:
https://gmic.co.uk/topic/46384-order-of ... iensstern/

Now, the Personalakte says Wieting had the "Verdienstkreuz" of this decoration. Which class is this? Because this class doesn't directly correspond to any of the actual classes of this decoration.
He must have been awarded this decoration at the end of 1934 or later (because of the reason I stated above), when he was already retired and had the rank of Char. Vizeadmiral.
I think the class he was awarded could be either the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (the same class as the Austro-Hungarian version of this decoration he received during WW1). What do you think?
You are quite right.
Thank you Gregg.

But you haven't answered on my question regarding the class of the "österreichischen Roten Kreuzes". Please read once again what I wrote under number "4.".
Do you think it is the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen? And why?
I didn't answer because I wasn't sure the class. Most likely he received the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen class.
I agree. The Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen of the österreichischen Roten Kreuzes was a badge decoration, just like the Verdienstkreuz of the ungarischen Roten Kreuzes that Wieting was awarded.
But perhaps Thierry can help confirm this.
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Re: Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 26 Nov 2023 11:48

askropp, please update Wieting's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.
Also, delete all the text at the bottom of his award list.


Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2185043&hi ... g#p2185043

-Ritterkreuz des Königlich Preußischen Hausordens von Hohenzollern mit Schwertern (04. 12. 1917)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Erinnerungsmedaille (Zentenarmedaille) 1897 (22. 03. 1897)
-Ritterkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse (28. 07. 1906)
-Bremisches Hanseatenkreuz
-Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz
-Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse (10. 07. 1916)
-Ritterkreuz I. Klasse des Großherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen mit Schwertern
-Großherrlich Osmanische Kriegsmedaille (Eiserner Halbmond) (1918)
-k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Militärverdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration
-k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Offiziersehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz mit der Kriegsdekoration
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Verdienstkreuz des Königlich Ungarischen Roten Kreuzes (1926)
-Offiziersehrenzeichen vom Österreichischen Roten Kreuzes
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer
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Vizeadmiral Robert Witthoeft-Emden (1886-1960)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 26 Nov 2023 16:17

Vizeadmiral Robert Witthoeft-Emden (1886-1960)

First column:
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (31. 10. 1914)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (19. 02. 1920)
- Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (15. 11. 1934)
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern (20. 04. 1941)
- Silberne Medaille des spanischen Roten Kreuzes (07. 08. 1941)
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse
- Kolonialabzeichen
- Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung I. bis IV. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)

Second column:
- Militärorden I. Klasse "Estrella de Abdon Calderon" Ecuador (25. 12. 1937)
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Re: Vizeadmiral Robert Witthoeft-Emden (1886-1960)

Post by graveland » 26 Nov 2023 16:39

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
26 Nov 2023 16:17
Vizeadmiral Robert Witthoeft-Emden (1886-1960)

Second column:
- Militärorden I. Klasse "Estrella de Abdon Calderon" Ecuador (25. 12. 1937)
Militärorden I. Klasse "Estrella de Abdón Calderón" Ecuador (25.12.1937)

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Re: Vizeadmiral Robert Witthoeft-Emden (1886-1960)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 26 Nov 2023 17:18

askropp, please update Witthoeft-Emden's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral Robert Witthoeft-Emden (1886-1960) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2185085&hi ... n#p2185085

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (31. 10. 1914)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (19. 02. 1920)
-Ehrenkreuz III. Klasse des Fürstlichen Hausordens von Hohenzollern mit Schwertern
-Kolonialabzeichen (Elefantenorden)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (15. 11. 1934)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis I. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Ecuadorianischer Orden des Abdón Calderón I. Klasse (25. 12. 1937)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern (20. 04. 1941)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Silberne Medaille des Spanischen Roten Kreuzes (07. 08. 1941)
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse
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Re: Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)

Post by Requin Marteau » 27 Nov 2023 09:16

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Nov 2023 20:03
Vizeadmiral z.V. Franz Wieting (1876-1966)


1. Even though it appears the award date "10. 07. 1916" is for the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz, this cannot be because in the 1916 Rangliste (which was published on 1 August 1916) only the Bremisches Hanseatenkreuz is listed for Wieting. If he was awarded the Lübeckisches Hanseatenkreuz on 10. 07. 1916, then it would've been listed also.
The award date must then be for his Großherzoglich Mecklenburg-Schwerinsches Militärverdienstkreuz II. Klasse, which is also listed in the 1916 Rangliste.
Do you agree?
OK

2. The 1926 Rangliste lists "ÖR3K" for Wieting. This is the k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Offiziersehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz mit der Kriegsdekoration. Before, I thought this was odd because he was not an Arzt. But, seeing the two other Roten Kreuz entries in his Personalakte (which I will cover in more detail below), it seems he did some humanitarian work during WW1, for which he received THREE different Roten Kreuz decorations.
Most likely during the time he was the Member of the Armistice-Commission Riga and at the same time Chief of Staff of the Armistice-Commission Sevastopol and Chief of Staff of the Nautical-Technical Commission as well as Naval-Command Black Sea (17 December 1917-22 December 1918).
OK

3. Let's first examine the following entry in his Personalakte: "Verdienstkreuz des ungarischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19) (1926)".

This decoration was established on 30 January 1922 by Miklós Horthy. See here:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrenzeic ... en_Kreuzes
It consisted of three classes:
- Verdienststern
- Verdienstkreuz (badge)
- Verdienstmedaille

Wieting was awarded the II. Klasse (Verdienstkreuz) in 1926.
OK

4. And now the other Roten Kreuz entry: "Verdienstkreuz des österreichischen Roten Kreuzes (für Kriegsverdienste 1914/19)".

This decoration was established on 3 November 1922. There is no Wikipedia article for this decoration, but I managed to find the information about the classes, which were the same as the Austro-Hungarian Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um das Rote Kreuz. Also, even though it was established in 1922, the first awardings of the decoration took place on 5 December 1934.
It consisted of four classes:
- Verdienststern
- Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse (neck decoration)
- Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (badge) OK
- Ehrenzeichen II. Klasse
I also found the information that the highest class (Verdienststern) was reserved for Heads of States, and actually never awarded.
See here:
https://gmic.co.uk/topic/46384-order-of ... iensstern/

Now, the Personalakte says Wieting had the "Verdienstkreuz" of this decoration. Which class is this? Because this class doesn't directly correspond to any of the actual classes of this decoration.
He must have been awarded this decoration at the end of 1934 or later (because of the reason I stated above), when he was already retired and had the rank of Char. Vizeadmiral.
I think the class he was awarded could be either the Ehrenzeichen I. Klasse or the Offiziers-Ehrenzeichen (the same class as the Austro-Hungarian version of this decoration he received during WW1). What do you think?
For MG3, I have 5.05.1906.

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