Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
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Re: Admiral Hubert Schmundt (1888-1984)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 18 Feb 2024 15:13

New update for Hubert Schmundt. See the award document below.

Admiral Hubert Schmundt (1888-1984) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2180113&hi ... t#p2180113

askropp, please update the following award like this:

-Flottenkriegsabzeichen (01. 10. 1941)

And move it above the Finnischer Orden des Freiheitskreuzes I. Klasse mit Schwertern to be chronologically correct.
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Re: Vizeadmiral Kurt-Caesar Hoffmann (1895-1988)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 18 Feb 2024 16:10

New update for Kurt-Caesar Hoffmann. See the award documents below.

Vizeadmiral Kurt-Caesar Hoffmann (1895-1988) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2181574&hi ... n#p2181574

askropp, please update the following awards like this:

-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse (29. 11. 1939)
-Flottenkriegsabzeichen (04. 10. 1941)
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Re: Max Bastian and Paul Wülfing von Ditten

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 18 Feb 2024 22:41

Small name update for a Finnish award. The correct name for the "Finnische Silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille I. Klasse" is actually "Finnische Freiheitsmedaille I. Klasse in Silber". It is indeed a Tapferkeitsmedaille by type, but it is not called that officially. Also, it is still awarded today, so the year "1918" doesn't have to be written as part of the name of the award.
Since we don't know when exactly Bastian and Wülfing von Ditten were awarded this medal (it could've been in 1918 or sometime later), I will delete the award date/year "(1918)" written after the award currently.

Admiral Max Bastian (1883-1958) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2178836&hi ... n#p2178836
askropp, for Bastian please change the name of the "Finnische Silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille I. Klasse (1918)" to:

-Finnische Freiheitsmedaille I. Klasse in Silber

Vizeadmiral z.V. Paul Wülfing von Ditten (1880-1953) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2185239&hi ... n#p2185239
For Wülfing von Ditten, change the name of the "Finnische Silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille I. Klasse (1918)" to:

-Finnische Freiheitsmedaille I. Klasse in Silber

Also for Wülfing von Ditten, update the following award like this:

-Finnische Erinnerungsmedaille des Freiheitskrieges 1918 mit Spange „Syd-Finland“
Last edited by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral on 18 Feb 2024 23:45, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Char. Admiral Hermann Bauer (1875-1958)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 18 Feb 2024 23:35

Requin Marteau wrote:
06 Feb 2019 14:42
Bonjour,

Served in Finnland Expedition in 1918 as Kdt Linienschiff «Westfalen», possibility of obtaining Finnish décorations (as Orden des Freiheitskreuz, Erinnerungsmedaille des Freiheitskrieg 1918). Do you have infos ?

Crdl
Thierry
I have some new information regarding Finnish decorations for Hermann Bauer (see the 1st photo below).
He was indeed awarded the Finnischer Orden des Freiheitskreuzes I. Klasse mit Schwertern on 19. 05. 1918.

I think he also must've been awarded the Finnische Erinnerungsmedaille des Freiheitskrieges 1918. However, the Finnish expert that helped me find the information says that, according to Finnish documents (see the 2nd photo below), Bauer was NOT awarded the Finnische Erinnerungsmedaille des Freiheitskrieges 1918. I think this is a mistake, but perhaps some other Finnish documents will surface that confirm the awarding of this medal to Bauer. The 2nd document below lists only VR I (Orden des Freiheitskreuzes I. Klasse) for Bauer.
For other admirals that were awarded the Finnische Erinnerungsmedaille des Freiheitskrieges 1918 (Bastian, Isendahl and Wülfing von Ditten), this medal is listed in this same document.

So, for now I will only add the Finnischer Orden des Freiheitskreuzes I. Klasse mit Schwertern to Bauer's award list.

Char. Admiral Hermann Bauer (1875-1958) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2178865&hi ... r#p2178865

askropp, please add the following award for Bauer:

-Finnischer Orden des Freiheitskreuzes I. Klasse mit Schwertern (19. 05. 1918)
(add it below the k.u.k. Österreich-Ungarisches Militärverdienstkreuz III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration)
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Konteradmiral Hans Michahelles (1899-1975)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 20 Feb 2024 12:46

Hans Michahelles has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards.

Becuase of this, we have to rely on the information from Manfred Dörr's book about the Ritterkreuzträger der Kriegsmarine (see the 1st photo below).

1. The class of the Chilenischer Verdienstorden that is currently written in the Database (Kommandeurkreuz) is wrong. The information in the book states the following:
"10.12.1925 Chilenischer Verdienstorden 3. Klasse"
This is the Ritterkreuz class.


2. According to the book, Michahelles was awarded two Bulgarian awards. He must've been awarded these awards when he was the General-Advisor in the Naval Defence Office, OKM (06 May 1938-23 August 1943). In this capacity, he was surely sent to Bulgaria.

Now, I think the class of the St. Alexander-Orden written in the book is wrong. V. Klasse is the Ritterkreuz class. But, on the date when he was awarded this order (20. 04. 1942), Michahelles was already a Kapitän zur See, too high a rank to be awarded the Ritterkreuz class.
Therefore, I think the correct class is the III. Klasse (Kommandeurkreuz), the same as the class of the Bulgarischer Militärverdienstorden he was awarded.
Do you agree that we change the class of his St. Alexander-Orden to Kommandeurkreuz?


3. I was able to find the first two pages of Michahelles' Soldbuch (see the 2nd photo below). If only someone would be able to find the pages that contain the list of his awards from this same Soldbuch. We can only hope.
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Re: Admiral z.V. Werner Tillessen (1880-1953)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 20 Feb 2024 13:20

Admiral z.V. Werner Tillessen (1880-1953) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2180197&hi ... n#p2180197

askropp, for Tillessen, please change the following award like this:

-Großkreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Rumänien mit Schwertern (07. 08. 1943, Awarded on 15. 08. 1943)

The time difference between the two dates is too short for the second date to be the German approval date. Therefore it has to be the date of the awarding/presentation of the medal.
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Re: Konteradmiral Hans Michahelles (1899-1975)

Post by graveland » 20 Feb 2024 15:47

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
20 Feb 2024 12:46
Hans Michahelles has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards.

2. According to the book, Michahelles was awarded two Bulgarian awards. He must've been awarded these awards when he was the General-Advisor in the Naval Defence Office, OKM (06 May 1938-23 August 1943). In this capacity, he was surely sent to Bulgaria.

Now, I think the class of the St. Alexander-Orden written in the book is wrong. V. Klasse is the Ritterkreuz class. But, on the date when he was awarded this order (20. 04. 1942), Michahelles was already a Kapitän zur See, too high a rank to be awarded the Ritterkreuz class.
Therefore, I think the correct class is the III. Klasse (Kommandeurkreuz), the same as the class of the Bulgarischer Militärverdienstorden he was awarded.
Do you agree that we change the class of his St. Alexander-Orden to Kommandeurkreuz?
No, I don't.

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Re: Konteradmiral Hans Michahelles (1899-1975)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 20 Feb 2024 15:49

graveland wrote:
20 Feb 2024 15:47
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
20 Feb 2024 12:46
Hans Michahelles has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards.

2. According to the book, Michahelles was awarded two Bulgarian awards. He must've been awarded these awards when he was the General-Advisor in the Naval Defence Office, OKM (06 May 1938-23 August 1943). In this capacity, he was surely sent to Bulgaria.

Now, I think the class of the St. Alexander-Orden written in the book is wrong. V. Klasse is the Ritterkreuz class. But, on the date when he was awarded this order (20. 04. 1942), Michahelles was already a Kapitän zur See, too high a rank to be awarded the Ritterkreuz class.
Therefore, I think the correct class is the III. Klasse (Kommandeurkreuz), the same as the class of the Bulgarischer Militärverdienstorden he was awarded.
Do you agree that we change the class of his St. Alexander-Orden to Kommandeurkreuz?
No, I don't.
Explain why please...
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Re: Konteradmiral Hans Michahelles (1899-1975)

Post by graveland » 20 Feb 2024 16:26

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
20 Feb 2024 15:49
graveland wrote:
20 Feb 2024 15:47
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
20 Feb 2024 12:46
Hans Michahelles has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards.

2. According to the book, Michahelles was awarded two Bulgarian awards. He must've been awarded these awards when he was the General-Advisor in the Naval Defence Office, OKM (06 May 1938-23 August 1943). In this capacity, he was surely sent to Bulgaria.

Now, I think the class of the St. Alexander-Orden written in the book is wrong. V. Klasse is the Ritterkreuz class. But, on the date when he was awarded this order (20. 04. 1942), Michahelles was already a Kapitän zur See, too high a rank to be awarded the Ritterkreuz class.
Therefore, I think the correct class is the III. Klasse (Kommandeurkreuz), the same as the class of the Bulgarischer Militärverdienstorden he was awarded.
Do you agree that we change the class of his St. Alexander-Orden to Kommandeurkreuz?
No, I don't.
Explain why please...
Because you do not provide any photographic or documentary evidence. And I imagine that the author would have it to affirm that.

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Re: Konteradmiral Hans Michahelles (1899-1975)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 20 Feb 2024 16:46

graveland wrote:
20 Feb 2024 16:26
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
20 Feb 2024 15:49
graveland wrote:
20 Feb 2024 15:47
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
20 Feb 2024 12:46
Hans Michahelles has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards.

2. According to the book, Michahelles was awarded two Bulgarian awards. He must've been awarded these awards when he was the General-Advisor in the Naval Defence Office, OKM (06 May 1938-23 August 1943). In this capacity, he was surely sent to Bulgaria.

Now, I think the class of the St. Alexander-Orden written in the book is wrong. V. Klasse is the Ritterkreuz class. But, on the date when he was awarded this order (20. 04. 1942), Michahelles was already a Kapitän zur See, too high a rank to be awarded the Ritterkreuz class.
Therefore, I think the correct class is the III. Klasse (Kommandeurkreuz), the same as the class of the Bulgarischer Militärverdienstorden he was awarded.
Do you agree that we change the class of his St. Alexander-Orden to Kommandeurkreuz?
No, I don't.
Explain why please...
Because you do not provide any photographic or documentary evidence. And I imagine that the author would have it to affirm that.
The author surely had some kind of source for this award. However, that doesn't mean he didn't make a mistake when copying information from the source.
He often made mistakes with awards in these books.

Even though I did not provide any photographic or documentary evidence, common sense tells me Michahelles couldn't have been awarded the Ritterkreuz in 1942, when he was a Kapitän zur See.
To me, there is no doubt the class he was awarded was the Kommandeurkreuz.

You do as you wish, but if you keep the Ritterkreuz class, you are making a mistake. Because there is no chance that is correct.
Just imagine, he was awarded the Ritterkreuz of the Chilean order in 1925. And how would it make any sense he was awarded the same class (Ritterkreuz) of the St. Alexander-Orden in 1942, 17 years later? It would only make sense if he didn't advance through the ranks in the Navy in those 17 years, but he clearly did.
Also, why would he be awarded the Ritterkreuz (V. Klasse) of the St. Alexander-Orden and then the Kommandeurkreuz (III.) of the Bulgarischer Militärverdienstorden shortly after that (presumably also in 1942 or 1943)?
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Re: Konteradmiral Hans Michahelles (1899-1975)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 20 Feb 2024 20:05

askropp, please update Michahelles' awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Konteradmiral Hans Michahelles (1899-1975) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2189120&hi ... s#p2189120

-Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes (309) am 30.04.1945 als Konteradmiral und Kommandant der Seeverteidigung Gascogne und zugleich Festungskommandant Girondemündung-Nord
-Eisernes Kreuz (1939) II. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1939) I. Klasse
-Ritterkreuz des Chilenischen Verdienstordens (10. 12. 1925)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (07. 11. 1934)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnungen IV. bis II. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen St. Alexander-Ordens mit Schwertern am Ring (20. 04. 1942)
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen Militärverdienstordens mit der Kriegsdekoration
-Kriegsabzeichen für die Marineartillerie
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Konteradmiral Hans Mirow (1895-1986)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 21 Feb 2024 16:32

Hans Mirow has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards. However, I will add the award dates for the WDA and the Verdienstorden der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.

askropp, please update Mirow's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Konteradmiral Hans Mirow (1895-1986) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2189174&hi ... w#p2189174

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1939) I. Klasse
-U-Bootskriegsabzeichen 1918
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnungen IV. bis II. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse (01. 04. 1939)
-Deutsches Spanienkreuz in Silber ohne Schwerter (06. 06. 1939)
-Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Verdienstkreuz I. Klasse des Verdienstordens der Bundesrepublik Deutschland (31. 03. 1965)

Please also delete the 3rd and 4th photos currently posted (last two) and add these three new photos (with the descriptions):
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Last edited by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral on 21 Feb 2024 23:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Post by askropp » 21 Feb 2024 20:00

1.) Why delete the lowest photo?
2.) You do not suppose Junck kept that fake Christmas Tree until March? Photos 22 & 23 belong together.
3.) In the thread, some pics show no caption, some show my caption, some the photo title and some both. Why?!
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Re: Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 21 Feb 2024 22:59

askropp wrote:
21 Feb 2024 20:00
1.) Why delete the lowest photo?
2.) You do not suppose Junck kept that fake Christmas Tree until March? Photos 22 & 23 belong together.
3.) In the thread, some pics show no caption, some show my caption, some the photo title and some both. Why?!
1.) Because Mirow is barely visible in that photo. Also, when I post photos I am limited to posting five photos per post. So I thought six photos would be too much. You don't have to delete it then.
2.) The date for those photos came from Bundesarchiv. You are right that the photo with Junck was also taken on 18 December 1944. I didn't notice the Christmas Tree.
3.) I add the caption if the photo in question has a caption. I don't know why some photos show both the caption and photo title. I imagine it has something to do with the way the forum functions.
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Konteradmiral Wilhelm Mössel (1897-1986)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 22 Feb 2024 12:00

Konteradmiral Wilhelm Mössel (1897-1986)

1st photo below:

- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (09. 05. 1918)
- Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (25. 11. 1934)
- Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnungen II. bis IV. Klasse
- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 13. März 1938 (16. 12. 1938) (did I write the award date correctly?)
- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (06. 10. 1939)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1939) I. Klasse (06. 06. 1940)
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