Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
graveland
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Re: Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)

Post by graveland » 26 Sep 2023 20:18

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
26 Sep 2023 19:32
graveland wrote:
26 Sep 2023 19:25
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
26 Sep 2023 18:55
Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)
04.09.1916: Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse mit Spange “Vor Dem Feinde”
00.01.1919: Finnisches Freiheitskreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern (It's the most likely)
30.01.1935: Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (Because it is a more common date than the other)
Thank you Gregg.
But I would still choose the other date for the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer ("24. 01. 1935") because it is written in the document that is a primary source (period document). The other date comes from a card listing only some of the awards. And these cards are not always accurate. They often just copy the awards and dates that are written in the first document I posted.
Besides, there was no "common award dates" for the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer. This medal was awarded when the person applied for it, they were not awarded en masse on the same date like the KVK's for example.

By the way, the Finnish expert confirmed that Kurze was awarded the Finnischer Orden des Freiheitskreuzes III. Klasse mit Schwertern, like you assumed.
:thumbsup:

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Re: Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 26 Sep 2023 23:41

askropp, please update Kurze's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2182441&hi ... e#p2182441

-Deutsches Kreuz in Silber am 12.02.1945 als Vizeadmiral und Chef der Amtsgruppe Nautik, OKM/Skl.
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (10. 10. 1915)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (17. 05. 1919)
-Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz II. Klasse mit Spange „Vor dem Feinde“ (04. 09. 1916)
-Marineverwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Schwarz (16. 08. 1918)
-Finnischer Orden des Freiheitskreuzes III. Klasse mit Schwertern (00. 01. 1919)
-Finnische Erinnerungsmedaille des Freiheitskrieg 1918 (00. 01. 1919)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (24. 01. 1935)
-Ritterkreuz des Königlich Isländischen Falkenordens (07. 08. 1935)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis I. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern (30. 01. 1941)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern (30. 01. 1942)
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Admiral Richard Foerster (1879-1952)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 28 Sep 2023 10:32

I think the date "30. 06. 1936" is most likely the date of the presentation of the award (Verleihung) instead of the approval date of Foerster's Großkreuz des Königlich Schwedischen Schwertordens. It usually took way longer than 4 days for the German approval of an award. So, the date "26. 06. 1936" is the Swedish award date (the date when the King of Sweden signed the decree for the awarding of the order) and "30. 06. 1936" is the date of the presentation of the award to Foerster. The German approval date is then unknown.

askropp, please update Foerster's Großkreuz des Königlich Schwedischen Schwertordens like this:

Admiral Richard Foerster (1879-1952) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2179400&hi ... r#p2179400

-Großkreuz des Königlich Schwedischen Schwertordens (26. 06. 1936, Awarded on 30. 06. 1936)
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Vizeadmiral Fritz Lamprecht (1893-1961)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 28 Sep 2023 10:54

Fritz Lamprecht has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards. This is unfortunate because the first two ribbons in the 2nd row on his ribbon bar are still unknown. They are undoubtedly foreign awards. Both ribbons have a rosette. The third ribbon in the 2nd row is the Großoffizierskreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Italien (identified by luftk).

Does anyone have any ideas what the other two ribbons might be?
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Re: Vizeadmiral Fritz Lamprecht (1893-1961)

Post by graveland » 28 Sep 2023 12:36

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
28 Sep 2023 10:54
Fritz Lamprecht has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards. This is unfortunate because the first two ribbons in the 2nd row on his ribbon bar are still unknown. They are undoubtedly foreign awards. Both ribbons have a rosette. The third ribbon in the 2nd row is the Großoffizierskreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Italien (identified by luftk).

Does anyone have any ideas what the other two ribbons might be?
My guess... The first one could be the Orden al Mérito de Chile and the second one the Ungarischen Verdienstordens.

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Re: Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Post by askropp » 28 Sep 2023 18:38

I will be away for a few days and unable to add changes during this period.
There are times in history when staying neutral means taking sides.

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Re: Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 28 Sep 2023 18:42

askropp wrote:
28 Sep 2023 18:38
I will be away for a few days and unable to add changes during this period.
Thank you for letting me know. I will send you a PM with the updates that need to be added when you return.
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Re: Vizeadmiral Fritz Lamprecht (1893-1961)

Post by Requin Marteau » 29 Sep 2023 06:51

graveland wrote:
28 Sep 2023 12:36
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
28 Sep 2023 10:54
Fritz Lamprecht has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards. This is unfortunate because the first two ribbons in the 2nd row on his ribbon bar are still unknown. They are undoubtedly foreign awards. Both ribbons have a rosette. The third ribbon in the 2nd row is the Großoffizierskreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Italien (identified by luftk).

Does anyone have any ideas what the other two ribbons might be?
My guess... The first one could be the Orden al Mérito de Chile (possible, class commander, 1928-1930) and the second one the Ungarischen Verdienstordens (class commander, 1938 ?).

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Re: Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Post by luftk » 29 Sep 2023 12:05

One is likely the Hungarian Order of Merit.

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Re: Vizeadmiral Fritz Lamprecht (1893-1961)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 29 Sep 2023 12:55

Thank you Gregg, Thierry and Pierce. But, in my opinion, it is impossible to be 100% sure what these awards are just based on the ribbons. Therefore I will not be adding the two proposed orders (Chilenischer Verdienstorden and Ungarischer Verdienstorden) to Lamprecht's award list, for now. Perhaps some new evidence will surface someday.

I will add the award date for his WDA.

askropp, please update Lamprecht's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral Fritz Lamprecht (1893-1961) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2182459&hi ... t#p2182459

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
-Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz
-U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis I. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse
-Kriegsabzeichen für Minensuch-, U-Boots-Jagd- und Sicherungsverbände
-Großoffizierskreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Italien
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Vizeadmiral Werner Lange (1893-1965)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 30 Sep 2023 10:30

Vizeadmiral Werner Lange (1893-1965)

1st photo below:

First column:
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (15. 05. 1916)
- Ritterkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischen Hausordens mit Schwertern (20. 05. 1916)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (01. 02. 1918)
- Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz (20. 04. 1918)
- Herzoglich Sachsen-Altenburgische Herzog Ernst-Medaille I. Klasse mit Schwertern (17. 10. 1918)
- U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918) (14. 12. 1918)
- Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (02. 03. 1935)
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (16. 10. 1939)
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse (27. 05. 1940)

Second column:
- Ritterkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischen Hausordens mit Schwertern
- Komturkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus (21. 12. 1937)
- Deutsches Kreuz in Gold (08. 01. 1944) (this award date is wrong)

2nd photo below:

First column:
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (15. 05. 1916)
- Ritterkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischen Hausordens mit Schwertern (20. 05. 1916)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (01. 02. 1918)
- Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz (20. 04. 1918)
- Herzoglich Sachsen-Altenburgische Herzog Ernst-Medaille I. Klasse mit Schwertern (17. 10. 1918)
- U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918) (14. 12. 1918)
- Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (02. 03. 1935)
- Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung II. bis IV. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
- Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse (05. 03. 1937) (this award date is wrong. The correct date from the award document is "01. 04. 1937")

Second column:
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (16. 10. 1939)
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse (27. 05. 1940)
- Ritterkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischen Hausordens mit Schwertern
- Komturkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus (07. 01. 1938)
- Deutsches Kreuz in Gold (08. 01. 1944) (this award date is wrong)

1. There are two different award dates for the Komturkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus: "21. 12. 1937" and "07. 01. 1938".
"21. 12. 1937" is the Italian award date. In this case, I believe "07. 01. 1938" is the date of the presentation of the award instead of the German approval date. The time period between the two dates is too short for it to be the approval date.
Do you agree?
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Re: Vizeadmiral Werner Lange (1893-1965)

Post by graveland » 30 Sep 2023 14:04

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
30 Sep 2023 10:30
Vizeadmiral Werner Lange (1893-1965)
1. There are two different award dates for the Komturkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus: "21. 12. 1937" and "07. 01. 1938".
"21. 12. 1937" is the Italian award date. In this case, I believe "07. 01. 1938" is the date of the presentation of the award instead of the German approval date. The time period between the two dates is too short for it to be the approval date.
Do you agree?
Yes, I do.

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Re: Vizeadmiral Werner Lange (1893-1965)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 30 Sep 2023 18:02

askropp, please update Lange's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral Werner Lange (1893-1965) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2182482&hi ... e#p2182482

-Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes (268) am 28.10.1944 als Vizeadmiral und Kommandierender Admiral Ägais
-Deutsches Kreuz in Gold am 07.01.1944 als Vizeadmiral und Kommandierender Admiral Ägais
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (15. 05. 1916)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (01. 02. 1918)
-Ritterkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Sachsen-Ernestinischen Hausordens mit Schwertern (20. 05. 1916)
-Hamburgisches Hanseatenkreuz (20. 04. 1918)
-Herzoglich Sachsen-Altenburgische Herzog Ernst-Medaille I. Klasse mit Schwertern (17. 10. 1918)
-U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918) (14. 12. 1918)
-Ehren-und Erinnerungskreuz des Marinekorps Flandern
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (02. 03. 1935)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis II. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse (01. 04. 1937)
-Komturkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus (21. 12. 1937, Awarded on 07. 01. 1938)
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (16. 10. 1939)
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse (27. 05. 1940)
-Flottenkriegsabzeichen (08. 05. 1942)
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Vizeadmiral Joachim Lietzmann (1894-1959)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 01 Oct 2023 17:11

Vizeadmiral Joachim Lietzmann (1894-1959)

1st photo below:

- Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande (14. 12. 1912)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
- Kolonialabzeichen (08. 12. 1923) (did I write the award date correctly?)
- Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (05. 01. 1935)
- Kommandeurkreuz II. Klasse des Königlich Schwedischen Wasa-Ordens (1936) (we have the Swedish award date "01. 11. 1935" from Swedish sources. The German approval happened in 1936 most likely)
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern (05. 10. 1940)
- Japanischer ...??? von Heiligen Schatzes III. Klasse (16. ??. 1940) (what is the word after "Jap."? Also, what is the award date? I can't decipher the month)
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (???) (what is the award date written?)
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern (30. 01. ??) (is the year written "1942" or "1944"?)
- Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung II. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
- Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse

2nd photo below:

- Spanischer Kreuz II. Klasse del mérito naval (1932) (we know the Spanish award date from Spanish sources is "23. 01. 1932")
- Offizierskreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Italien (07. 05. 1934)
- Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Bulgarischen Militär-Verdienstordens (28. 06. 1934)
- Ritterkreuz des Königlich Dänischen Dannebrog-Ordens (19. 19. 1933) ("19" for the month is a typo. The Danish sources confirm the date "19. 09. 1933")
- Offizierskreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Italien (27. 05. 1934)
- Kreuz II. Klasse des Spanischen Ordens für Verdienste zur See (00. 01. 1932) (we know the Spanish award date from Spanish sources is "23. 01. 1932")
- Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Ungarischen Verdienstordens (1936)

3rd photo below:

- Spanischer Marine Verdienstkreuz in Weiß und Verdienstkreuz in Gold III. Klasse (21. 08. 1939) (the version in "Gold" did not exist like we established before. He received only the version in "Weiß". This also confirms that on his portrait photo he is wearing both the II. Klasse he was awarded in 1932 and the III. Klasse he was awarded in 1939)
- Königlich Ungarische Kriegserinnerungsmedaille am Bande der Kriegsmedaille mit Schwertern und Helm
- Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Ungarischen Verdienstordens
- Kaiserlich Japanischer Orden des Heiligen Schatzes III. Klasse (this is the "Kommandeurkreuz" class)
- Stern III. Klasse des spanischen Ordens del Merito Militar

1. There are two different award dates for the Offizierskreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Italien: "07. 05. 1934" and "27. 05. 1934".
I believe that "07. 05. 1934" is the Italian award date and "27. 05. 1934" the date of the presentation of the award to Lietzmann (instead of the German approval date because that usually took more time).
Do you agree?


2. One award that we have listed for Lietzmann currently is the Medalla de la Campaña de España (1936−1939). We have no proof he was awarded this medal. I think the supposed proof for this medal was the 6th ribbon in the first row on his ribbon bar. However, I think this ribbon represents the Königlich Spanischer Orden für Verdienste zur See.
I think we should DELETE the Medalla de la Campaña de España (1936−1939) from Lietzmann's award list. Do you agree?
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Re: Vizeadmiral Joachim Lietzmann (1894-1959)

Post by graveland » 01 Oct 2023 17:55

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
01 Oct 2023 17:11
Vizeadmiral Joachim Lietzmann (1894-1959)
1. There are two different award dates for the Offizierskreuz des Königlichen Ordens der Krone von Italien: "07. 05. 1934" and "27. 05. 1934".
I believe that "07. 05. 1934" is the Italian award date and "27. 05. 1934" the date of the presentation of the award to Lietzmann (instead of the German approval date because that usually took more time).
Do you agree?
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
01 Oct 2023 17:11
2. One award that we have listed for Lietzmann currently is the Medalla de la Campaña de España (1936−1939). We have no proof he was awarded this medal. I think the supposed proof for this medal was the 6th ribbon in the first row on his ribbon bar. However, I think this ribbon represents the Königlich Spanischer Orden für Verdienste zur See.
I think we should DELETE the Medalla de la Campaña de España (1936−1939) from Lietzmann's award list. Do you agree?
Yes, I do.
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
01 Oct 2023 17:11
Vizeadmiral Joachim Lietzmann (1894-1959)
08.12.1923: Kolonialabzeichen
16.03.1940: Kaiserlich Japanischer Orden des Heiligen Schatzes 3. Klasse
20.04.1941: Spange zum Eisernen Kreuz 2. Klasse
30.01.1942: Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1. Klasse mit Schwertern

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