Database of Kriegsmarine Admirals

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
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Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 23 Sep 2023 11:46

Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)

1st photo below:

First column:
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (19. 05. 1916)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (16. 06. 1918)
- U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918)
- Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (30. 11. 1934)
- Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938 (20. 12. 1939)
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (00. 10. 1941)
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern (20. 04. 1942)

Second column:
- Ritterkreuz II. Klasse des Großherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen mit Schwertern (20. 12. 1916)
- Ungarischer Verdienstorden Ritterkreuz (20. 08. 1938)

1. I believe the class of the Ungarischer Verdienstorden written is a mistake. Krastel was a Kapitän zur See since 01 October 1936, and there is no way he would've received the lowest class (Ritterkreuz) of this order.
Based on his rank, I believe he was awarded the Kommandeurkreuz. Do you agree?
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Re: Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)

Post by graveland » 23 Sep 2023 15:42

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
23 Sep 2023 11:46
Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)
1. I believe the class of the Ungarischer Verdienstorden written is a mistake. Krastel was a Kapitän zur See since 01 October 1936, and there is no way he would've received the lowest class (Ritterkreuz) of this order.
Why? Was that strictly prohibited according to the regulations?

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Re: Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 23 Sep 2023 16:49

graveland wrote:
23 Sep 2023 15:42
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
23 Sep 2023 11:46
Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)
1. I believe the class of the Ungarischer Verdienstorden written is a mistake. Krastel was a Kapitän zur See since 01 October 1936, and there is no way he would've received the lowest class (Ritterkreuz) of this order.
Why? Was that strictly prohibited according to the regulations?
All these orders were awarded based on rank. A Kapitän zur See was always awarded the Kommandeurkreuz. Go back and look at some other officers that received this award (Paul Fanger for example). The Ritterkreuz class was too low for an officer of Krastel's rank.
Last edited by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral on 23 Sep 2023 21:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)

Post by graveland » 23 Sep 2023 19:26

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
23 Sep 2023 16:49
graveland wrote:
23 Sep 2023 15:42
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
23 Sep 2023 11:46
Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)
1. I believe the class of the Ungarischer Verdienstorden written is a mistake. Krastel was a Kapitän zur See since 01 October 1936, and there is no way he would've received the lowest class (Ritterkreuz) of this order.
Why? Was that strictly prohibited according to the regulations?
All these orders were awarded based on rank. A Kapitän zur See was always awarded the Kommandeurkreuz. Go back and look at some other officers that received this award (Paul Fanger for example). The Ritterkreuz class was too low for an officer with Krastel's rank.
Well then it must be a mistake.

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Re: Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 23 Sep 2023 21:18

askropp, please update Krastel's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral Walter Krastel (1892-1966) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2182353&hi ... l#p2182353

-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (19. 05. 1916)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (16. 06. 1918)
-Ritterkreuz II. Klasse des Großherzoglich Badischen Ordens vom Zähringer Löwen mit Schwertern (20. 12. 1916)
-U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (30. 11. 1934)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis I. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Ungarischen Verdienstordens (20. 08. 1938)
-Medaille zur Erinnerung an den 1. Oktober 1938 (20. 12. 1939)
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (00. 10. 1941)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern (20. 04. 1942)

Please also add this new photo of Krastel:
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Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 24 Sep 2023 14:47

Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)

1st photo below:

- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (29. 01. 1916)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (28. 04. 1916)
- U-Bootskriegsabzeichen
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern (21. 11. 1940)
- Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (20. 11. 1943)

1. The last ribbon on the 3rd photo below is still unknown. Does anyone know what it might be? When comparing with two other pre-war photos of his ribbon/medal bar, I am quite sure this last ribbon was awarded during WW2. Sadly, there is nothing in the Personalakte about this award.
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Re: Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)

Post by graveland » 24 Sep 2023 15:30

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Sep 2023 14:47
Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)
1. The last ribbon on the 3rd photo below is still unknown. Does anyone know what it might be? When comparing with two other pre-war photos of his ribbon/medal bar, I am quite sure this last ribbon was awarded during WW2. Sadly, there is nothing in the Personalakte about this award.
I think it could be the Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Roten Kreuzes.

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Re: Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 24 Sep 2023 16:02

graveland wrote:
24 Sep 2023 15:30
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Sep 2023 14:47
Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)
1. The last ribbon on the 3rd photo below is still unknown. Does anyone know what it might be? When comparing with two other pre-war photos of his ribbon/medal bar, I am quite sure this last ribbon was awarded during WW2. Sadly, there is nothing in the Personalakte about this award.
I think it could be the Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Roten Kreuzes.
Yes, possibly.
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Re: Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 24 Sep 2023 19:35

askropp, please update Krause's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2182374&hi ... e#p2182374

-Deutsches Kreuz in Silber am 18.03.1945 als Vizeadmiral z.V. und Oberwerftdirektor der Kriegsmarinewerft Horten
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (29. 01. 1916)
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (28. 04. 1916)
-U-Bootskriegsabzeichen (1918)
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis I. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern (21. 11. 1940)
-Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse (20. 11. 1943)
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Vizeadmiral Leo Kreisch (1895-1977)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 25 Sep 2023 10:39

Leo Kreisch has a Personalakte, but there are no documents mentioning awards, except the DKiG. However, I will add two new dates for the WDA.

askropp, please update Kreisch's awards. Just copy-paste the list below. I highlighted the changes in blue but you can keep the text black.

Vizeadmiral Leo Kreisch (1895-1977) viewtopic.php?f=5&t=239341&p=2182432&hi ... h#p2182432

-Deutsches Kreuz in Gold am 19.07.1943 als Konteradmiral und Führer der Unterseeboote Italien
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse
-Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse
-Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis II. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)
-Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung I. Klasse (01. 04. 1939)
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz II. Klasse
-Spange (1939) zum Eisernen Kreuz I. Klasse
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlichen Ordens des Sterns von Rumänien mit Schwertern am Tapferkeitsbande der Militärischen Tugend (14. 03. 1942)
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Re: Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)

Post by Requin Marteau » 26 Sep 2023 07:24

graveland wrote:
24 Sep 2023 15:30
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Sep 2023 14:47
Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)
1. The last ribbon on the 3rd photo below is still unknown. Does anyone know what it might be? When comparing with two other pre-war photos of his ribbon/medal bar, I am quite sure this last ribbon was awarded during WW2. Sadly, there is nothing in the Personalakte about this award.
I think it could be the Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Roten Kreuzes.
It's also possible Westwall Medal (Inspekteur d. Marineartillerie Zeugämter; 1937-1943)

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Re: Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 26 Sep 2023 09:18

Requin Marteau wrote:
26 Sep 2023 07:24
graveland wrote:
24 Sep 2023 15:30
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
24 Sep 2023 14:47
Vizeadmiral Günther Krause (1890-1983)
1. The last ribbon on the 3rd photo below is still unknown. Does anyone know what it might be? When comparing with two other pre-war photos of his ribbon/medal bar, I am quite sure this last ribbon was awarded during WW2. Sadly, there is nothing in the Personalakte about this award.
I think it could be the Ehrenzeichen des Deutschen Roten Kreuzes.
It's also possible Westwall Medal (Inspekteur d. Marineartillerie Zeugämter; 1937-1943)
Thank you Thierry. But I don't know any other admirals that received this medal.
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Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 26 Sep 2023 18:55

Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)

1st photo below:

First column:
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) II. Klasse (10. 10. 1915)
- Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz II. Klasse mit der Spange (04. 09. 1916) (does the part "mit der Spange" refer to the OFA2 or the Finnische Erinnerungsmedaille?)
- Verwundetenabzeichen für ein- und zweimalige Verwundung (16. 08. 1918)
- Eisernes Kreuz (1914) I. Klasse (17. 05. 1919)
- Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914/1918 mit Schwertern für Frontkämpfer (24. 01. 1935)
- Ritterkreuz des Isländischen Ordens vom weißen Falken (07. 08. 1935)
- Wehrmacht Dienstauszeichnung IV. bis I. Klasse (02. 10. 1936)

Second column:
- Finnischer Freiheitskreuz (00. 01. 1919) (no class is indicated, I will ask the expert on the GMIC forum if he knows the class)
- Erinnerungsmedaille an den Finnischer Freiheitskrieg (00. 01. 1919)

2nd photo below:
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) II. Klasse mit Schwertern (30. 01. 1941)
- Kriegsverdienstkreuz (1939) I. Klasse mit Schwertern (30. 01. 1942)
- Deutsches Kreuz in Silber (15. 02. 1945) (this award date is incorrect. The correct award date is "12. 02. 1945", like it says on the DKiS card at the bottom)

1. There are two different award dates for the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer: "24. 01. 1935" and "30. 01. 1935" (from the 3rd photo below)
Which one would you choose and why?
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Re: Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)

Post by graveland » 26 Sep 2023 19:25

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
26 Sep 2023 18:55
Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)
04.09.1916: Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse mit Spange “Vor Dem Feinde”
00.01.1919: Finnisches Freiheitskreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern (It's the most likely)
30.01.1935: Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (Because it is a more common date than the other)

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Re: Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 26 Sep 2023 19:32

graveland wrote:
26 Sep 2023 19:25
Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
26 Sep 2023 18:55
Vizeadmiral Friedrich Wilhelm Kurze (1891-1945)
04.09.1916: Großherzoglich Oldenburgisches Friedrich August-Kreuz 2. Klasse mit Spange “Vor Dem Feinde”
00.01.1919: Finnisches Freiheitskreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern (It's the most likely)
30.01.1935: Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer (Because it is a more common date than the other)
Thank you Gregg.
But I would still choose the other date for the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer ("24. 01. 1935") because it is written in the document that is a primary source (period document). The other date comes from a card listing only some of the awards. And these cards are not always accurate. They often just copy the awards and dates that are written in the first document I posted.
Besides, there was no "common award dates" for the Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer. This medal was awarded when the person applied for it, they were not awarded en masse on the same date like the KVK's for example.

By the way, the Finnish expert confirmed that Kurze was awarded the Finnischer Orden des Freiheitskreuzes III. Klasse mit Schwertern, like you assumed.
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