Hi Thomas
A thoughtful response. When I meant people "like" Dirlewanger I meant just that. This includes the likes of Max Simon, Theodor Eicke, Heinz Lammerding and so on.
Firstly, not all of the "bad" generals ended up in the Waffen-SS - one need to look no further than, to name a few examples, Bittrich, Harmel, Steiner and Hausser. Many officers who conducted themselves well during the war had joined the Waffen-SS not because they were "rejects" (as you seem to imply) but because it they saw the Waffen-SS as a forward-looking military organisation. This cannot be denied, surely.
Secondly, the claim that the regular Heer was "clean" is a myth. They were just as complicit in any criminal activity as the Waffen-SS; all of Hitler's key military staff - Jodl, Keitel, etc. - were regular Heer, not Waffen-SS. Hitler's infamous "Commissar" order was given by an Army general, not Waffen-SS.
Oscar Dirlewanger & Bronislav Kaminski
And how about Kaminski?Polkovnik Sakharov wrote:Dirlewanger's unit WAS one of the worst, but Dirlewanger himself was a very brave man. Knight's Cross, German Cross, Close Combat badge, Wound Badge in Gold, Eastern People's medals and Assault badge were received by him as commander of the Sturmbrigade (eventually 36.SS-Division).
A pic of Kaminski:
Daer Tiger S04
It was not my intention do make all of the Waffen-SS bad. But you spot Hausser as "good one". I agree with you that at the beginning of his Wagffen-SS-Career he believed in a "good" Waffen-SS.
But we have never to forget, that hes was already retired since 1932 as a char. Generalleutnat of the Army. So the Wehrmacht would never take him back. The second point are his post war activities in teh HIAG until his death in 1972. This organisation of the Waffen-SS-Veterans were all persons who never learned that the Waffen-SS was not only a good organisation. The third point ist his book "Soladenten wie andere auch". There he tell all bad things which the Waffen-SS did where the Allgemeine-SS.
An other point we can not forget: Hausser never said anywhere that he do not like to have pesons like Eicke, Simon or Dirlewanger in the Waffen-SS.
What you think about the exchange between the Gaurds in the camps and the Waffen-SS. I think that shows that the Waffen-SS and Camps were very close.
Greetings
thomas
It was not my intention do make all of the Waffen-SS bad. But you spot Hausser as "good one". I agree with you that at the beginning of his Wagffen-SS-Career he believed in a "good" Waffen-SS.
But we have never to forget, that hes was already retired since 1932 as a char. Generalleutnat of the Army. So the Wehrmacht would never take him back. The second point are his post war activities in teh HIAG until his death in 1972. This organisation of the Waffen-SS-Veterans were all persons who never learned that the Waffen-SS was not only a good organisation. The third point ist his book "Soladenten wie andere auch". There he tell all bad things which the Waffen-SS did where the Allgemeine-SS.
An other point we can not forget: Hausser never said anywhere that he do not like to have pesons like Eicke, Simon or Dirlewanger in the Waffen-SS.
What you think about the exchange between the Gaurds in the camps and the Waffen-SS. I think that shows that the Waffen-SS and Camps were very close.
Greetings
thomas
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Requin Marteau
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Well, judging by his decorations, he didn't show any outstanding bravery. Ar least I haven't heard of such. But he was a good commander and organiser.AHLF wrote:And how about Kaminski?Polkovnik Sakharov wrote:Dirlewanger's unit WAS one of the worst, but Dirlewanger himself was a very brave man. Knight's Cross, German Cross, Close Combat badge, Wound Badge in Gold, Eastern People's medals and Assault badge were received by him as commander of the Sturmbrigade (eventually 36.SS-Division).
A pic of Kaminski:
Kaiser wrote:whatever became of Mr. D and his merry band of thieves?
also - was Kaminski's unit made up of similar people with similar accusations leveled against them?
Kaminski's brigade was made up mostly of criminals, who were even worse than Dirlewanger's guys. Their behavior during the suppression of the Warsaw uprising was so appalling, that the Germans considered the brigade dangerous. It was disbanded in October 1944, and its men were included into the 1st division of the Russian Liberation Army. Kaminski was killed by SD men, who had made it look like a partisan attack.
Dirlewanger was killed shortly after the war, either by Soviet troops, or by his former fellow KZ prisoners. His division surrendered in 1945 partly to American, partly to Soviet troops (the latter were executed immediately).
Thank you for your answer and the information you share.Polkovnik Sakharov wrote: ...Well, judging by his decorations, he didn't show any outstanding bravery. Ar least I haven't heard of such. But he was a good commander and organiser.Kaiser wrote:whatever became of Mr. D and his merry band of thieves?
also - was Kaminski's unit made up of similar people with similar accusations leveled against them?
Kaminski's brigade was made up mostly of criminals, who were even worse than Dirlewanger's guys. Their behavior during the suppression of the Warsaw uprising was so appalling, that the Germans considered the brigade dangerous. It was disbanded in October 1944, and its men were included into the 1st division of the Russian Liberation Army. Kaminski was killed by SD men, who had made it look like a partisan attack.
Dirlewanger was killed shortly after the war, either by Soviet troops, or by his former fellow KZ prisoners. His division surrendered in 1945 partly to American, partly to Soviet troops (the latter were executed immediately).