Otl. Seherr-Thoss

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Rossano
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Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Rossano » 16 May 2022 15:38

Hello
I thought that the name of all officers of this family was/is Seherr-Thoß but in Trauerannoncen there are also some officers named Seherr-Thoss, in particular Hilmar. But in his list Hans has Hilmar as Seherr-Thoß.
Then in PV and Karteikarten Hilmar is reported to be as both Seherr-Thoss and Seherr-Thoß
What is his official+certain family name ? Is Trauerannoncen right by listing both differently written family names ?
Thanks

Dave Danner
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Dave Danner » 16 May 2022 20:50

Both Oberstleutnants were Freiherr von Seherr-Thoß. That was the family name. The Thoss entries were errors by lazy writers or typesetters or others who didn't give a crap about the difference between ss and ß.

They were brothers, by the way - Adalbert Roland (31.07.1897-11.02.1970) and Hilmar Hubertus (31.10.1903-24.04.1984). Their father was also an Oberstleutnant.

Rossano
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Rossano » 17 May 2022 07:03

Many thanks Dave, do You have the DLB (or any assignments in WW 2 only) for Adalbert ?
P.S.: Trauerannoncen lists other "-Thoss", are all "-Thoß" correct ? Graf correct ? Lothar and Roger WW 2 officers or not ?

Seherr-Thoss, Lothar Freiherr v., Oberleutnant ausser Diensten
Seherr-Thoss, Roger Graf v., Major ausser Diensten
Seherr-Thoss, Theobald Graf v., Generalmajor ausser Diensten
Seherr-Thoß, Theobald Graf v., Generalmajor ausser Diensten

The last one is "-Thoß" BUT above him another Gen.Maj. Theobald as "-Thoss". Trauerannoncen wrong ? I believe that there was one GM. Theobald only (as Graf and Thoß ?)

Dave Danner
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Dave Danner » 20 May 2022 00:33

Rossano wrote:
17 May 2022 07:03
Many thanks Dave, do You have the DLB (or any assignments in WW 2 only) for Adalbert ?
P.S.: Trauerannoncen lists other "-Thoss", are all "-Thoß" correct ? Graf correct ? Lothar and Roger WW 2 officers or not ?

Seherr-Thoss, Lothar Freiherr v., Oberleutnant ausser Diensten
Seherr-Thoss, Roger Graf v., Major ausser Diensten
Seherr-Thoss, Theobald Graf v., Generalmajor ausser Diensten
Seherr-Thoß, Theobald Graf v., Generalmajor ausser Diensten

The last one is "-Thoß" BUT above him another Gen.Maj. Theobald as "-Thoss". Trauerannoncen wrong ? I believe that there was one GM. Theobald only (as Graf and Thoß ?)
Adalbert:

01.10.1933 bei der Remonteamts-Nebenstelle Lyck (später Wehrkreis-Remonteschule Lyck) angestellt (Reit- und Fahrlehrer)
01.05.1939 bei der Wehrkreis-Reit- und Fahrschule I Lyck (Umbenennung)
26.08.1939 Adjutant des Reiter-Ersatz-Regiments 1
01.10.1940 Standort-Offizier Lyck
13.02.1942 bei der Wehrkreis-Reit- und Fahrschule I Lyck (Reit- und Fahrlehrer, Bürooffizier, Hilfsoffizier beim Wehrmachts-Standortältesten)

All are Seherr-Thoß. These are all the ones I know of with military service who were alive during World War II:

Seherr-Thoß, Ernst Hans Christoph Roger Hermann Graf v., *04.04.1879 in Rosnochau, †12.11.1959 in Klagenfurt; Kgl. preuß. Rittm.d.R.a.D., Rittm.d.R.z.V. im OKW
Seherr-Thoß, Ernst Hans Christoph Manfred Roger Graf v., *14.03.1880 in Rosnochau, †21.07.1954 in Klagenfurt; Kgl. preuß. Maj.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Ernst Hans Christoph Theobald Graf v., *26.05.1882 in Rosnochau, †09.11.1966 in Berlin-Charlottenburg; Generalmajor a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Ernst Hans Christoph Wolfgang Graf v., *08.06.1884 in Rosnochau, † [?]; Kgl. preuß. Rittm.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Heinrich-Leopold Graf v., *27.03.1896 in Potsdam, † [?]; Kgl. preuß. Lt.a.D., 1942 Hptm.d.R.
Seherr-Thoß, Ernst Manfred Roger Graf v., *01.03.1897 in Steinseifersdorf, †10.12.1979 in Miesbach; Kgl. preuß. Lt.a.D., Maj.d.R.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Ernst Hubertus Manfred Graf v., *07.03.1898 in Steinseifersdorf, † [?]; Kgl. preuß. Lt.a.D., Maj.d.R.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Ernst Hans Christoph Franz Roger Graf v., *26.08.1916 in Berlin, †28.01.1942 in Berlin-Charlottenburg; Offz.Anw. an der Artillerie-Schule
Seherr-Thoß, Ernst Hans-Christoph Aloysius Wilhelm Graf v., *13.10.1918 in Potsdam; 1942 Lt. in einer Nachrichten-Abteilung, Lt.a.D.

Seherr-Thoß, Friedrich Wilhelm Traugott Julius Siegesmund Frhr. v., *27.7.1870 in Öls, †25.7.1951 in Gersfeld, Rhön; Kgl. preuß. Oberstlt.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Joachim Karl Friedrich Ernst Frhr. v., *14.5.1877 auf Schollwitz, †9.5.1951 in Gesmold bei Melle; Kgl. preuß. Maj.a.D., Oberstleutnant z.V.
Seherr-Thoß, Eckart Julius Dietrich Siegesmund Frhr. v., *25.6.1893 in Breslau, †15.5.1966 in Köln; Kgl. preuß. OLt.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Lothar Julo Erich Leopold Georg Frhr. v., *27.11.1894 in Charlottenburg, †6.2.1982 in Bad Neuenahr-Ahrweiler; Kgl. preuß. OLt.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Adalbert Roland Frhr. v., *31.07.1897 in Bellschwitz, †11.02.1970 in Bad Homburg v.d. Höhe; Oberstlt.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Manfred Friedrich Wilhelm Frhr. v., *2.3.1900 in Riesenburg, †7.4.1976 in Karlsruhe; Reg.Dir.a.D.
Seherr-Thoß, Hilmar Hubertus Frhr. v., *31.10.1903 in Riesenburg, †24.04.1984; Oberstlt.a.D.

Rossano
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Rossano » 20 May 2022 07:16

Many thanks Dave, much appreciated ! Rgds., Rossano

LuckyStrike23
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by LuckyStrike23 » 20 May 2022 16:39

Any idea which Seherr Thoß he is? Taken at Panzer-Ersatzabteilung 1 in 1940/41 (probably at the age of app. 40). I assume he was a reserve officer from Panzerregiment 2.
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hero.
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by hero. » 29 Jun 2022 12:27

Hello !

Some additional information on 2 of the Seherr-Thoß officers (both Freiherr von):

Adalbert Roland:
Promotion to Leutnant 01.03.17 (1)
From 1921 - 1932 various positions in Reiter-Regiment 2
promotion to Oberstlt. : 01.07.41 (66)

Many thanks to Dave Danner for the information on him during WW 2 :) .

Hilmar Hubertus:
Promotion to Leutnant 01.12.26 (50)
From 1927 - 1932 various positions in the same Reiter-Regiment 2

At the time of moblization, Hilmar should have been Rittmeister (01.12.34 (33)) and Kommandeur of
Divisions-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 1 (1. Inf.Div.).
He should have held this position at least until after the camapaign in France (post by Tom Nutter):
viewtopic.php?p=1339773#p1339773

Scherzer does not give any clear information on this, so it would be nice if anyone could confirm this.
I also do not know what happened to him after 1940. He became Oberstleutnant 01.08.42 (17).

I found one book, which mentions Hilmar as Kdr. der Reit- und Fahrschule WK XI in Gardelegen in April 1945,
which at that time moved to Seethen :
https://books.google.de/books?id=82cPCA ... AF6BAgCEAM
[source : Haarseim, Torsten, Gardelegen 1945 - Dokumentation des Unfassbaren, chapt. 3]

If anyone could add some additional info, especially on Hilmar-Hubertus,
I would be grateful !

Thanks and best regards,
hero.

P.S.: I hope it is not inappropriate, but I just wanted to mention that I found two more index cards, which both don't
seem to fit to anyone in the already long list provided by Dave Danner above :
- Friedrich-Arthur (could be Graf, as WBK is Liegnitz, but it is not mentioned), born 1.12.1910 ;
Oberleutnant d.R., 01.03.1942
1943 : Pz.Gren E.u.A--Btl. 13
23.1.45 : Stab Pz.Div. 178 (v.d. Meden)
- Manfred Freiherr von Seherr-Thoß : Leutnant 01.04.44 (2351), affiliated with Pz.Rgt. 24
(I am sure, this is another Manfred as that one in the list above)

Rossano
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Rossano » 29 Jun 2022 14:08

The Schule Gardelegen was in WK. IX

hero.
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by hero. » 29 Jun 2022 15:14

Hello !

Thanks for the friendly "correction".
But no, it was in WK XI, see attached, still the same in 1945.

Best regards,
hero.
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Rossano
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Rossano » 29 Jun 2022 18:39

I´m really shocked because I´ve (don´t remember the source)
the Schule in Gardelegen WK. IX and in Großenhain WK. XI
I now checked in other sources and indeed die Schule in Gardelegen is in WK. XI and Großenhain in WK. IV.
(in WK. IV I have die Schule in Oschatz). It seems that there is here a big confusion, and I have to check all locations again because as far as I know there was such a Schule in each WK.
Where was located the Schule in WK. IX ?
Pardon my "friendly wrong" correction

hero.
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by hero. » 29 Jun 2022 23:36

Hello Rossano!

The situation regarding the Remonteschulen (which became Reit- und Fahrschulen mid 1939)
is indeed a bit complicated and would certainly need more detailed research.

After a quick look, my current understanding is :
WK Remonteschule XI : always located in Gardelegen

Regarding the schools in WK IV and IX, beginning of 1939, there were two schools :
WK Remonteschule IX : located in Großenhain (which is located 30km NNW Dresden, and so WK IV surprisingly)
WK Remonteschule IV : located in Oschatz (50km NW Dresden, also WK IV)

From March 1940 onward, the various KGl. of the Ersatzheer list (essentially) only a school IX in Oschatz, to which
elements of the WK IV were probably subordinated. So somehow, the two schools were merged with designation IX,
but it was located in WK IV. And this situation remained until August 1944 (as far as I know).

However : If you look at the big Podzun book, Das Deutsche Heer 1939, stating the situation on 3.1.1939,
it says on p. 812-813:
WK-Remonteschule IX Gardelegen {should be XI]
WK-Remonteschule XI Großenhain {should be IX]
WK-Remonteschule IV Oschatz
To me it seems very clear, that in Podzun (or the source behind it) the designations IX and XI were mixed up.
Otherwise it would make no sense in my oppinion.

I hope that clears some of the confusion, but all that is only remotely connected to the Seherr-Thoß family.
One question, as you started this thread : Would it be okay to discuss the careers of the various other members
of the Seherr-Thoß family here?
As Dave Danner provided that large list, it might be useful to have all the information concentrated in one thread.

Best regards,
hero.

Rossano
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Rossano » 30 Jun 2022 09:15

Thanks hero
You are right. The schools should go to another thread and here the Seherr-Thoß family only
Rgds., Rossano

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Georges JEROME
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Georges JEROME » 01 Jul 2022 18:01

hero. wrote:
29 Jun 2022 15:14
Hello !

Thanks for the friendly "correction".
But no, it was in WK XI, see attached, still the same in 1945.

Best regards,
hero.
Great chart. Where can I find equivalent OoB for stell Gen kdo XII ?
Best regards

Georges

hero.
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by hero. » 28 Jul 2022 19:42

Hello !

First, I would like to apologize for making some mistakes above, regarding the numbering
of Remonte-schools in Großenhain and Oschatz.
In case, someone stumbles over this thread and my post above, the correct explanation can be found here:
viewtopic.php?p=2421009#p2421009

I also overlooked the question by Georges Jeromes, sorry :
>> Great chart. Where can I find equivalent OoB for stell Gen kdo XII ?<<
There are various sources for those charts, for dates in 1940 and 42-44. If you need just
one or a few and only for WK XII, please send me a PM, which year(s) you need and I can send
it to you. (alternatively, I can send you the NARA roll numbers).

Here are some additional informations on the Seherr-Thoß family members:
1.) Hilmar Hubertus Freiherr von Seherr-Thoß (*31.10.1903 in Riesenburg ... )
I found an index card on him, giving some information regarding the time frame end 1942-mid 1944 :
(I can read only parts of it, so I have to guess, perhaps someone can help) [T78 R898 F0933].

10.11.42 AOK 18 (Stabsoffizier)
27.09.43 General der Infanterie b. Ob.d.H (zur Verfügung d. Gen.Qu.)
15.11.43 Kdr. Aufkl.Abt. 9 (nicht wirksam geworden)
15.11.43 Führer-Reserve OKH (Dienst regelt WK IX)
(kommandiert ab 22.11.43 zum Bataillons-Führer-Lehrgang Antwerpen)
02.02.43 Btl.Fhr.Reserve AOK 18
(Kdeur. (?) I.(Gren.Rgt. 423, 212. ID.) ?!
01.05.44 212. ID : Btl.-Kdr.
10.07.44 Führerreserve OKH (Dienst regelt Befehlshaber WK I)

=> bitte wenden ...
[of course, there is no copy of the backside ... sigh ...]
Perhaps someone can help, to close the gaps on Hilmar-Hubertus ?

As mentioned above, in April 1945, he was Kdr. Reit- und Fahrschule XI Gardelegen,
but its not clear from when on.

------
Another family member I would be interested in, is Manfred Friedrich Wilhelm Frhr. von :
(Data from Dave danner in post #4:)
Seherr-Thoß, Manfred Friedrich Wilhelm Frhr. v., *2.3.1900 in Riesenburg, †7.4.1976 in Karlsruhe; Reg.Dir.a.D.

In autumn 1944, he was in Stab of Korps Feldt as Gabo [see scan].
Oberlt. d.R. 1.10.39 (258)
As the Stab of Korps Feldt was formed to a certain degree from that of Militärbefehlshaber Südwestfrankreich,
I have the dim hope, that someone has infos on that Stab and finds him there ...

-------------
Below, I'll add the info on the other Manfred :
Seherr-Thoß, Manfred ........ Frhr. v., *17.4.1924 in ???,

Lt. RDA 1.4.44 (2351)
05.07.44 Pz.Rgt. 24
01.12.44 I./Pz.Rgt. 24
MIA 19.1.1945

------------
Finally, I found some old notes (insufficient, as I realize now), where I went through some Adels-Handbücher.
From that, it could be that Seherr-Thoß, Friedrich-Arthur Freiherr v., was born in Schollwitz.
Then Friedrich-Arthur could be the son of Seherr-Thoß, Joachim Karl Friedrich Ernst Frhr. v.,
who retired as Kgl. preuß. Maj.a.D., Oberstleutnant z.V.. Perhaps someone knows ?

For a better overview, I'll repeat his data here :
Seherr-Thoß, Friedrich-Arthur Frhr. v., *1.12.1910 in Schollwitz, ...
Oberleutnant d.R., 01.03.1942
1943 : Pz.Gren E.u.A.Btl. 13 (located in Neiße, WK VIII)
[This Btl. was used for the formation of Pz.Div. Tatra in August/September 1944.
And this might be the connection to Stab Pz.Div. 178, but that is complicated and needs more research]
23.1.45 : Stab Pz.Div. 178 (v.d. Meden)

-------------
I'll leave it by that for the moment. I found infos on a few other members, which might be interesting, too.
If anyone could comment, correct or add some small pieces of information, it would be greatly appreciated :) !

Best regards,
hero.
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Rossano
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Re: Otl. Seherr-Thoss

Post by Rossano » 28 Jul 2022 21:15

Thanks Hero
Where do I find the Kriegsrangliste (officers list) of the Korps Feldt (autumn 44) ?
Will You pls. give me the source, or roll number, or the link ?
Rgds., Rossano

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