Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
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bake
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by bake » 23 Jul 2009 20:37

From Ebay

RK-Verleihung (2)
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chris44
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by chris44 » 24 Jul 2009 16:47

Hi
a very old one on page 56
picture "RKT.jpg"
is this man

Köllner, Jürgen
* 16.01.1918 Welikije Ustjuk/Bez. Wologda/Russland
+ 08.10.1944 Tarnow/Polen
Ritterkreuz am: 04.05.1944
als: Hauptmann
Funktion: Kommandeur II./GrenRgt 671

http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/index_sea ... word=kölln

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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by chris44 » 24 Jul 2009 22:05

page 189
picture "unb flak 311"
should be
THEODOR SCHWABACH

chris44

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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by chris44 » 24 Jul 2009 22:19

page 276

picture "unb rkt goebbels lutze.jpg"


first man from left JOACHIM MEISSNER (Meißner)
second from left OTTO ZIERACH
the man next to Goebbels on his left side is HORST VON PETERSDORFF

and

the first man on the very right side of the photo is LUDWIG KLOTZ


chris44

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 25 Jul 2009 10:07

Excellent, chris44, done ! :D
The French Campaign RKT photo added to the group section as well as used for single entries for von Petersdorff, Klotz and Zierach.

There is another photo of Theodor (Theo) Schwabach in North Africa (on the index) ; this is on the no id list simultanously as the man to the left is open :
page 273 : 1.jpg (BA) left
This id is almost impossible. On the other hand there is a high probability that this has to be Reinhard Melzer. Can't proof it. If there is no objection I would suggest to put this on the confirmation list for the time being.

Hypthesis / arguments :
Right now there are all I./Flak-Rgt. 33 RKT - North Africa campaign - with photos on the index, except Melzer.
under 5. leichte Division :
I. Abteilung / Flak – Regiment 33 (mot) :
(assigned since arrival in Africa feb 1941 ; aug 1941 -> Lw command, 19. Flak-Div)
10. Fromm, Walter 05.07.1941 Hauptmann Kdr I./Flak-Rgt 33 (mot)
11. Melzer, Reinhard 30.06.1941 Unteroffizier Geschützführer i. d. 1./Flak-Rgt 33 (mot)
12. Schwabach, Theo (Theodor) 30.06.1941 Oberleutnant Chef 1./Flak-Rgt 33 (mot)
later :
Heintze, Erich 07.03.1942 Unteroffizier Geschützführer i. d. 3./Flak-Rgt (mot) 33
Huebner, Arnold 07.03.1942 Gefreiter Richtkanonier i. d. 3./Flak-Rgt (mot) 33
In a first attempt, the only thing which can be done on base of the photo is to compare the face and its features to Fromm, Heintze and Huebner. After further consideration the two of 3./33 could be ruled out. Also Fromm, based on the assumption, the photo was shot, when visiting the positions of 1./33, that is Schwabach and one of his Geschützführer = Melzer.
It looks like that I have named it a BA pic wrongly. Should be a time period newspaper photo and the final solution appears to be to trace this publication ultimatively.

/ Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 25 Jul 2009 10:25

page 73 : unk stuka pilot.jpg - Alfons Orthofer ?
mvc-001s-nsx20.jpg - Heinz-Günter Amelung and Orthofer ?
Already identified by freiherr. Just a short re-do. Objections ?
The Hauptmann is for sure Heinz-Günther Amelung. I would confirm Orthofer, too. Makes it a shot during the time period July 1942 (Amelung, 5./StG 77, RK 15.07.42) - October 1942 (Orthofer, KIA as Kdre. StG 77 on 12.10.1942).

/ Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 25 Jul 2009 10:33

page 74 : who is this? by Balsi

Turned out almost impossible for me to trace this Lw general. Is it possible that this is a card of an actor !?
In fact there exist such actor autographs parallel to movies.

/ Bernd

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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by chris44 » 25 Jul 2009 12:58

Hi
picture on page 247 "sevastopol RKT.jpg"
and the same on page 276 "unb rkt Goebbels Fromm Hase.jpg"

shows Ritterkreuzträger

GEORG "GEO" MÜLLER
Inf.Rgt. 321

chris

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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by AlifRafikKhan » 25 Jul 2009 16:36

Bernd R wrote:page 74 : who is this? by Balsi

Turned out almost impossible for me to trace this Lw general. Is it possible that this is a card of an actor !?
In fact there exist such actor autographs parallel to movies.

/ Bernd
I think it's a fake. Luftwaffe Generaloberst with Flying Clasp and named Oskar? :)

But maybe other member know better?

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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by robertmoore » 25 Jul 2009 23:22

Hello, Bernd,

I agree with AlifRafikKhan. That Lw Generaloberst has to be a fake. For one thing, he looks too young to have occupied that exalted rank and there is no Lw GO with the name of Oskar.

Also, on Page 74, not that it matters that much, but the officer awarding the RK to Fritz-Rudolf Schulz is General der Panzertruppen Dietrich von Saucken. This may have been so indicated later on, but I could find nothing there to id the awarding officer.

Take care, and thanks, Bernd, for your kind words.

Terry

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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Ruslan M » 26 Jul 2009 05:55

Hello Gentlemen,

Back to my Id of Ernst Sorge (page 129 - Teil 1(top)), I have found nice photo of him and attached it for comparison.


Also I have some thoughts about other pictures from this pages:

Teil 1 (bottom) - Autograph says Hanns Heise, but I am pretty sure it's Walter Sigel on the picture.


Teil 2 (Top,left) and Teil 3 (bottom, right) - My opinion, both picture it's Richard Heller from ZG 26. (Specific eyebrows and cut of eyes matched)


Best wishes

Ruslan


source: http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de/ and http://hotlinecy.com/smcollection.htm
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Last edited by Ruslan M on 27 Jul 2009 05:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 26 Jul 2009 09:44

Hi Ruslan,

thanks for pointing to this. The administrative handling was still not good. Status quo was and is : entirely on the "no id" list - captioned - no shift to the index done. I have edited the captions now according to your latest. For a better overview and to denote the status quo this is the preliminary entry on the no id list right now :
page 129 : series: Teil 1,2,3,.jpg
Teil 1.jpg : top : Ernst Sorge -> confirmed, see p 289 - middle, left : Adolf Weiß - middle, right : Hans Schalanda - bottom : id :Hanns Heise ; other id : No, but Walter Sigel
Teil 2.jpg : top left : Richard Heller ? - top, right : Erbo Graf von Kageneck - bottom, left : Hans-Heinz Augenstein - bottom, right : Josef Seibel
Teil 3.jpg : top : ? - bottom, left : Karl-Heinz Jaeger - bottom, right : Richard Heller ?
Sorge is 100% convincing to me ! No final impression on Sigel and Heller at the moment. What do the others say ?

Let's this round decide about the shifting to the index and what finally remains on the "no id" in order to deal with this big series on the current agenda.

Best regards
Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 26 Jul 2009 10:16

Terry, done ; von Saucken on the index, too, as he is one of the diamonds holders with the lowest number of photos available.

Re : page 74 : who is this? by Balsi
because it is a double, this wasn't listed - on page 79 it appears again, with a close-up of the text :
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 21#p735421

To me, possible reads are : "Otto Kav ??" , or most likely "Ottokar .. ??"

It is not GenO Otto Deßloch (or Dessloch).
So, besides this is not a RKT, we are looking for an actor with such a christian name (?) ; could be a german movie in the 1950s, my guess. In principal this isn't a "fake" if it's a film card..nevertheless I will shift this to the "fake" section - with "?" note - if there is no objection.

/ Bernd :?

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 26 Jul 2009 10:35

page 154 : Capturar_84.jpg - Josef Rettemeier ?
Already id'ed by John. Not Weidenbrück. I would confirm this. It matches 100% with the photos of him, when not laughing (best known shot maybe). Anyone says No and why ?

page 191 : 2921038.jpg - Martin Möbus? , 2802263.jpg
This was identified as well in the past. For sure Lt. Martin Möbus.
And, this is a fascinating photo the more I look at it. Doesn't it show the Thomsen and the Möbus brothers ? They really look like brothers.
Rolf Thomsen, KC - and ...??
Martin Möbus, KC - and ...??
I couldn't confirm this yet. It it correct they both had brothers in service with the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine respectively ?

/ Bernd

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Bernd R
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Re: Knight's Cross Holders Identification

Post by Bernd R » 26 Jul 2009 18:08

page 198 : unknown.jpg is Wilhelm Nädele

reference : identical pic the other way round http://www.hoernledivision.de/Bilder/so ... aedele.gif
on the very nice 260. Inf.Div. "Hörnle" site http://www.hoernledivision.de/Webseiten ... eutsch.htm

/ Bernd

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