Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
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Stauffenberg II
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Re: Emmerich von Nagy

Post by Stauffenberg II » 19 Jan 2019 23:22

Frech wrote:
05 Aug 2015 19:19
Here the VBl. for Nagy.

Regards

Christian
This is very strange. Is it possible that the VBl. is having an error?

Nagy was always in front of Stümpfl in the rank lists. If you compare every list from the Imperial seniority list 1918 on to 1934, the officers ranking list was v. Wiktorin (GM 24.10.1932), Materna (Rudolf) (GM 31.08.1933), Haselmayr Edl. v. Fernstein (GM 30.09.1933), v. Schwarzleitner-Domonkos, v. Nagy, Stümpfl (26.01.1934), Hautzinger (Hungarian: Jany), Towarek (26.05.1934), Löhr (25.09.1934), Feurstein (25.06.1935), Materna (Friedrich) (GM 25.06.1935), Böhme (24.12.1935), Ritter v. Wittas (24.12.1935), ...

So if Stümpfl behind Nagy was 26.01.1934 Nagy must have been 26.01.1934 too and this is confirmed by the 1938 Stellenbesetzung. I do not have the 1934 Schematismus readily available but will check it next week.

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Frech
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Frech » 20 Jan 2019 08:00

Stauffenberg II wrote:
19 Jan 2019 22:53
Frech wrote:
12 Oct 2017 17:16
Stauffenberg II wrote:Hi Frech, this does not tie in. Any typos re the dates?
Mauritz von Wiktorin
01.01.1934 Bestellung zum Vorstand der Abt. 1/BMfLV
01.04.1934 – 01.03.1936 Vorstand der Operationsabteilung im BMLV
31.03.1935 wegen „allgemein bekannter gesamtdeutscher Gesinnung“ verabschiedet
@Askropp: I have checked it now. It was a typo. Wiktorin was dismissed with 31.03.1935 [Verordnungsblatt des BMfLV 2/1935].

Regards

Christian
Once again me re Wiktorin: Was there really a time gap between appointment to Department Chief (01.01.1934) and Effective date (01.04.1934)?
I have checked it now: 01.01.1934 is correct (Verordnungsblatt 31/1933). 01.04.1934 must be a typo or from a different source.

Regards

Christian

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ttvon
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by ttvon » 02 Mar 2019 15:44

Hello,
Here is an Österreichs Generale (26) in 1938 taken by Hugo Jaeger. We can see his collar clear, a General der...
Who? Thanks!
ttvon
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Frech
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Frech » 02 Mar 2019 17:33

ttvon wrote:
02 Mar 2019 15:44
Hello,
Here is an Österreichs Generale (26) in 1938 taken by Hugo Jaeger. We can see his collar clear, a General der...
Who? Thanks!
ttvon
Sorry, it´s an Ulanen-Oberst and not a General.

Kindest

Christian

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ttvon
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by ttvon » 03 Mar 2019 00:53

Frech wrote:
02 Mar 2019 17:33
ttvon wrote:
02 Mar 2019 15:44
Hello,
Here is an Österreichs Generale (26) in 1938 taken by Hugo Jaeger. We can see his collar clear, a General der...
Who? Thanks!
ttvon
Sorry, it´s an Oberst of the common k.u.k. army (hungarian infantry) and not a General.

Kindest

Christian
Thanks.
But How to distinguish an Oberst from a General?

ttvon

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Frech
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Frech » 03 Mar 2019 07:34

ttvon wrote:
03 Mar 2019 00:53
Frech wrote:
02 Mar 2019 17:33
ttvon wrote:
02 Mar 2019 15:44
Hello,
Here is an Österreichs Generale (26) in 1938 taken by Hugo Jaeger. We can see his collar clear, a General der...
Who? Thanks!
ttvon
Sorry, it´s an Ulanen-Oberst and not a General.

Kindest

Christian
Thanks.
But How to distinguish an Ulanen-Oberst from a General?

ttvon
For the first I have to correct myself: it´s not a lancers colonel but one of the "hungarian infantry".

It´s quite simple: he is wearing an infantry-uniform in hungarian style and not a generals uniform.

Generals had a blue double breasted tunic, crimson cuffs with 60 mm wide braids and a golden "Feldbinde" (before 1918 and after 1933).

The colonel on the pic is a former k.u.k. officer as you can see on "K"-rosette on his cap. He has a single breasted tunic and cuffs with the typical embroidery of the hungarian regiments of the common army. And a "Feldbinde" of yellow silk. I add a pic of Richard Schilhawsky for comparism. The difference is evident at all I would think.

Regards

Christian
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Kriegsmarine Großadmiral
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 27 Apr 2019 22:39

I'm pretty sure this better quality photo of Eimannsberger wasn't posted before. So here it is :D
Source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... berger.jpg
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Frech
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Frech » 28 Apr 2019 22:22

Nice pic. Do you own it yourself?

Regards

Christian

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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Kriegsmarine Großadmiral » 28 Apr 2019 22:31

Frech wrote:
28 Apr 2019 22:22
Nice pic. Do you own it yourself?

Regards

Christian
No, according to wikipedia, it was uploaded there by his family member.

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Frech
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Frech » 28 Apr 2019 22:56

Kriegsmarine Großadmiral wrote:
28 Apr 2019 22:31
Frech wrote:
28 Apr 2019 22:22
Nice pic. Do you own it yourself?

Regards

Christian
No, according to wikipedia, it was uploaded there by his family member.
Okay, thank you.

Christian

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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Rossano » 08 May 2019 09:15

iggy88 wrote:
22 Feb 2018 23:55
Re Max Stiotta:
A few additions from HPA appointment lists:
im Stab des Generals der Pioniere, Heeresgruppe A; ernannt Kommandeur, Pionier-Bataillon 292 mit Wirkung vom 4 Sep 1940
im Festungs-Pionierstab 26; versetzt in den Küstenverteidigungsstab Südost mit Wirkung vom 25 Apr 1943
Hello Todd (and all other gentlemen)
His Dienstlaufbahn in this Forum reads that he was Kdr. Pi.Btl. 295, whilst from appointments lists (HPA) above he was Kdr. Pi.Btl. 292.
Somehow I was convinced that his Dienstlaufbahn (with 295) was correct (and that the appointm. list with 292 was wrong), but now I have strong doubts as I just found a note in a Kriegsrangliste that he was in 1941 Kdr. Pi.Btl.292.This should confirm what reported in the appointm.lists(292).
Knows anybody who were 1940/41 the Kdre. of the Pi.Btlne. 292 and 295 (possibly from official documents, or Div.KRL, or Div.KTB etc.) ?
Thanks, Rossano

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Stauffenberg II
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Re: Emmerich von Nagy

Post by Stauffenberg II » 22 May 2019 19:18

Stauffenberg II wrote:
19 Jan 2019 23:22
Frech wrote:
05 Aug 2015 19:19
Here the VBl. for Nagy.

Regards

Christian
This is very strange. Is it possible that the VBl. is having an error?

Nagy was always in front of Stümpfl in the rank lists. If you compare every list from the Imperial seniority list 1918 on to 1934, the officers ranking list was v. Wiktorin (GM 24.10.1932), Materna (Rudolf) (GM 31.08.1933), Haselmayr Edl. v. Fernstein (GM 30.09.1933), v. Schwarzleitner-Domonkos, v. Nagy, Stümpfl (26.01.1934), Hautzinger (Hungarian: Jany), Towarek (26.05.1934), Löhr (25.09.1934), Feurstein (25.06.1935), Materna (Friedrich) (GM 25.06.1935), Böhme (24.12.1935), Ritter v. Wittas (24.12.1935), ...

So if Stümpfl behind Nagy was 26.01.1934 Nagy must have been 26.01.1934 too and this is confirmed by the 1938 Stellenbesetzung. I do not have the 1934 Schematismus readily available but will check it next week.
Dear all,

I went to the Austrian Kriegsarchiv to see the 1933-1935 rank lists of the Austrian Army. Christian and his VBl. is correct re Nagy´s promotion to Gen. Maj. Here the full story:

1. As already told by me the rank listing was Wiktorin, Materna (Rudolf), Haselmayr, Schwarzleitner-Domonkos and then Nagy.
2. The 1933 rank list shows Wiktorin GM 24.10.1932, Materna Oberst 20.01.1928, Haselmayr 24.03.1928, Schwarzleitner-Domonkos 24.03.1928 and Nagy 24.03.1928, then Ing. Walter, Ing. Ankersdorfer, Stümpfl.
3. The rank list 1934 shows Wiktorin GM 24.10.1932, Materna (Rudolf) GM 31.08.1933 Haselmayr 30.09.1933, Schwarzleitner-Domonkos 30.10.1933, as well as Ing. Walter, Ing. Ankersdorfer and Stümpfl with GM 26.01.1934.
4. The 1935 rank lists is then showing Nagy with GM 21.12.1934 (Wiktorin already retired)
5. Conclusion: Between the rank lists 1933 and 1934 Nagy was downgraded by not being promoted in line. He was overtaken by Walter, Ankersdorfer and Stümpfl and some others behind him loosing relative seniority. Between the 1934 and the 1935 rank list Nagy later received a RDA of 21.12.1934.
6. In the German Stellenbesetzung 1938 Nagy is being shown with RDA 26.01.1934, ie with that seniority date, which would have been received when being promoted in line with Walter, Ankersdorfer and Stümpfl.

Christian, thanks for pointing this out. It´s a minor piece of history but obviously there was already an issue with Nagy in 1933/1934.


Jürgen

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Frech
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Frech » 23 May 2019 06:08

Dear Jürgen,

I can add some more material now.

1. Promotions to Oberst for Haselmayr, Schwarzleitner, Nagy, Walter, Ankersdorfer and Stümpfl effective on 24.03.1928

2. Promotion to Generalmajor for Schwarzleitner effective on 30.10.1933

3. Beurlaubung gegen Wartegeld for Nagy effective on 01.11.1933 (when his command post was liquidated!) and call-back with 01.01.1934

4. Promotions to Generalmajor for Walter and Ankersdorfer effective on 21.11.1933

5. Promotion to Generalmajor for Nagy effective on 21.12.1934

This could explain why Nagy was overtaken by Schwarzleitner, Walter and Ankersdorfer because he was not in active service when they were promoted.

Sources:
Verlautbarungsblatt für das ÖBH
ÖSTA/AdR/BMLV: Grundbuchblatt Nagy

Regards

Christian
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Frech » 23 May 2019 06:27

And here the relevant page of Rangliste 01.04.1934.

Regards

Christian
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Stauffenberg II
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Re: Österreichs Generale im Deutschen Heer 1938-1945

Post by Stauffenberg II » 23 May 2019 13:02

This could explain why Nagy was overtaken by Schwarzleitner, Walter and Ankersdorfer because he was not in active service when they were promoted.
Excellent, so because of 2 months of absence (01.11.1933-31.12.1933) he was loosing 11 months of seniority :lol:

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