Awardholders / unit

[USAF1986]

30) 17. SS-Pz.Gren.Div "GvB" [page 12]
Berger, Dr. Arno, 30.03.1945, SS-Ostuf. / SS-Obstubaf. [?], SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt. 17
DKiG ; rank ?

Per Scheibert, his rank is SS-Obersturmführer.

Best regards,
Shawn

[W.Vermeer]

30) 17. SS-Pz.Gren.Div "GvB" [page 12]
Berger, Dr. Arno, 30.03.1945, SS-Ostuf. / SS-Obstubaf. [?], SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt. 17
DKiG ; rank ?

Per Scheibert, his rank is SS-Obersturmführer.

Patzwall/Scherzer agree on that

[Bernd R]

Thanks Shawn and Wilco, I've corrected that entry. / Bernd

[Bernd R]

RE:

33) EBS : Tannert, Wilhelm, 00.00.1945, Oberleutnant, Pz.Begl.Kp. 342
Note the unusual unit designation. I suppose this is actually Füs.Btl. 342 (or a reorganized version of it) but I'm not certain. [disc. p 139, 140]

the mysterious / possible Panzer component of 342. Inf.Div.

What's secure is the DKiG for Tannert with the Füs.Btl. :
Tannert, Wilhelm, 24.04.1944, Leutnant, 3./Div.Füs.Btl. 342

What would be very unusual - and no facts found yet for that - is that 342. ID had a pure Panzer element.

What's ordinary is that the division had a StuG component in the Pz.Jäg.Abt., that is Stug.Abt. 1342 = 2.(Stug)/Pz.Jg.Abt. 342.
Evidence for that, with the "long variant" of designation -> Pz.Jg.Stu.Gesch.Abt. 1342
http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic.php?t=7289

What's interesting and irritating is that the Bundesarchiv catalogue in the category of Panzerjäger units has listed , RH 10/242 :
"Panzer-Abteilung 342 (342. Inf.Div.)"
http://www.bundesarchiv.de/foxpublic/71 ... _oben.html
As all others in that category are Pz.Jg. I take it this is a typo.

What's secure is that 342. ID lost its divisional structure in/after the Baranow bridgehead fightings and was split off into Kampfgruppen and remnants fighting back in direction to Silesia.

So, Pz.Begl.Kp. 342 could be an ad-hoc unit indeed formed out of the Füs.Btl. or formed out of remnants and used to move (and cover) along with the remaining Stugs.

Until final results are available I tend to list Tannert with the division. After all this is the very probable assignment ; I see no other headquarter.


Bernd

[Bernd R]

RE: DKiG

Flintrop, Wilhelm, 27.04.1945, Feldwebel d.R., 2./Pz.Jäg.Abt. 253 / 253. ID

Can we have a re-check please ?
Per the unit history - Münch, Einsatzgeschichte sPzJAbt. 653 -
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... &start=300
he is quoted with the DKiG data Geschützführer 1. /sPzJAbt 653
Eventually listed as a 653 unit member because posted from 253 to 653 ?

Bernd

[Bernd R]

RE :

Armee-Panzerjäger-Abteilung 742

German Cross in Gold (4)
[...]
Seitz, Andreas, 07.12.1944, Feldwebel, 1./Armee-Pz.Jäg.Abt. 742

Close Combat Clasp in Gold (1)
Seitz, Andreas, 08.12.1944, Feldwebel, Zugführer i. d. 3./Pz.Jäg.Abt. 742

Can we have a re-check please about the Kompanie ? 1. and 3. within two days ?? Or is there an explanation ?

Bernd

[Bernd R]

RE: "grab bag" [page 105]

Blocher, Rudolf, 13.02.1944, Hauptmann, SR zbV 85 / DKiG

I've come up with ex Landesschützen-Regiments-Stab zbV 85, renamed (25.6.42) Sicherungs-Regiment 85 , for the unit determination.
ww2.awards has it as Schützen-Regiment. Now, in the field of "S.Rgts" we have seen already, Patzwall/Scherzer have it this time vice versa !? Schützen, not Sicherungs.

Bernd

[Bernd R]

RE: 101. Jäger-Division [page 13]

with NKiG are listed these two Obergefreite.

Scheierer, Johann, 09.02.1945, Obergefreiter d.R., Melder i. d. 1./Jäg.Rgt. 228
Schoirer, Johannes, 09.02.1945, Obergefreiter, 1./Jäg.Rgt. 228

No judgement but it looks like that it could be the same person. Could be that Scheierer and Schoirer are two variants of an Alps region name. Eventually an administration/spelling problem ?
Can we have a re-check please ?

Bernd

[USAF1986]

Flintrop, Wilhelm, 27.04.1945, Feldwebel d.R., 2./Pz.Jäg.Abt. 253 / 253. ID

Listed as per Scheibert

German Cross in Gold (4)
[...]
Seitz, Andreas, 07.12.1944, Feldwebel, 1./Armee-Pz.Jäg.Abt. 742

Listed as per Scheibert & Dörr

Close Combat Clasp in Gold (1)
Seitz, Andreas, 08.12.1944, Feldwebel, Zugführer i. d. 3./Pz.Jäg.Abt. 742

Listed as per Scheibert & Dörr

Scheierer, Johann, 09.02.1945, Obergefreiter d.R., Melder i. d. 1./Jäg.Rgt. 228

Only Schoirer is listed in the 1986 edition of Dörr while only Scheierer is listed in the 2006 edition. Agreed it is the same man. I’d go with the most current version: Scheierer.

Best regards,
Shawn

[W.Vermeer]

33) EBS : Tannert, Wilhelm, 00.00.1945, Oberleutnant, Pz.Begl.Kp. 342
Note the unusual unit designation. I suppose this is actually Füs.Btl. 342 (or a reorganized version of it) but I'm not certain. [disc. p 139, 140]

What I have understood out of several sources, but don't pin me down on it, I amnot an expert, is that to the end of the war it was not unusual that a divisional staff received a temporary Panzer-Begleit-Kompanie. Perhaps that gives some more lead to research.

Flintrop, Wilhelm, 27.04.1945, Feldwebel d.R., 2./Pz.Jäg.Abt. 253 / 253. ID

Patzwall/Scherzer give the 2./Pz.Jäg.Abt. 253

German Cross in Gold (4)
[...]
Seitz, Andreas, 07.12.1944, Feldwebel, 1./Armee-Pz.Jäg.Abt. 742

Patzwall/Scherzer also gives 1./Armee-Pz.Jäg.Abt. 742

Blocher, Rudolf, 13.02.1944, Hauptmann, SR zbV 85 / DKiG

Patzwall/Scherzer gives only SR zbV 85 , so I would not dare to conclude this conclusive. The unit on ww2awards is from the not very accurate CD used in the past on Ordenstrager. I have not yet been able to trace the unit itself in any sources.

Scheierer, Johann, 09.02.1945, Obergefreiter d.R., Melder i. d. 1./Jäg.Rgt. 228
Schoirer, Johannes, 09.02.1945, Obergefreiter, 1./Jäg.Rgt. 228

Scheierer was rechecked with Dorr on ww2awards (http://www.ww2awards.com/person/9097 ). I also have his EK2 and EK1 date, so I tend to see that data as correct.
Schoirer I have also, but no rechecking yet. Can't seem to find him anywhere else, so possibly that is a typo or indeed the same person. I do not have Dorr's book myself, so I tend to go along with the conclusion by Shawn.

[Bernd R]

I have crossed out Schoirer from that NKiG list. Has to be the same man. For the double listing the simple and logical explanation is - after the re-check comment by Shawn - that in the second round of NKiG additions per the Dörr 2006 edition Scheierer passed by and we (I when editing) didn't notice the already listed Schoirer (per the 1986 ed.). The fact that only one man appears in the respective editions clearly shows the situation that this is the same man and there was a unclearness about his name back in 1986 which was cleared for the 2006 edition. Furthermore in 2006 he is Melder i. d. 1. Kp which shows the upgrade of info. And, at the end of the day, the 2006 ed. counts and I see no reason to not rely on Dörr in this case (+ in mind the whole story).
So, lot of words, sorry - but you doesn't seem to be convinced at first glance, Wilco - for the agreement to Shawn, with THE conclusion.
btw., when checking primary sources or similar records which can proof a data set we will see later how many hits and how many garbage we produced. Should be part of the fun section of this project, or ? For this case I take a bet.

Bernd

[Bernd R]

The other recipients kept listed as they were, thanks for the re-check.

For the SR zbV 85 there's more digging work to do then.

Hm, let's keep Pz.Begl.Kp 342 on the workbench, too, for a while. I know of the Pz.Divs. Divisions-Begleit-Kompanien. Besides we are talking about 1945, which means theory and practice, right now I can't make a final statement about infantry divisions. But we had this from the start of this case - is it a tank company ? Or is it an infantry company for tank coverage ? And if the latter, what kind of tanks ?

Bernd

[Bernd R]

added to 19. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (lett. Nr. 2) [page 14]
EBS , per hint by a colleague

Kalnajs, Teodors, 10.04.1945, Waffen-Obersturmführer, Ord-Offz. im Stab/Waffen-Gren.Rgt. d. SS 44

Bernd

[Bernd R]

RE: 20. infanterie-Division (mot) / 20. Panzergrenadier-Division [page 28)

added Christian name Walter for Breuss ; not in the Scherzer work.

Commendation Certificate of the Commander-in-Chief of the Army for Shooting Down Aircraft (1)
Breuss, Walter, 01.02.1944 (463), Feldwebel, Stab/Gren.Rgt. 76

found him on a comparisn and check tour on the 20. Pz.Gren.Div. site
http://www.20pzgrendiv.eu/Regimenter/IR76/RgtStab76.htm

Bernd

[W.Vermeer]

So, lot of words, sorry - but you doesn't seem to be convinced at first glance, Wilco - for the agreement to Shawn, with THE conclusion.

I am convinced Bernd, already was for I have sticken him from my lists too. Just tend to keep open a slight gap in definite stricking persons.