Watch out, entry dates in Soldbuch often contain mistakes or not the exact awaridng dates. Sometimes they placed the dates of presentation etc.Hauptmann Peter Gilow was awarded with the
german cross in gold at the 08.06.1942
knights cross at the 15.09.1942
Awardholders / unit
Re: Awardholders / unit
Re: Awardholders / unit
RE : Peter-Ekhard Gilow award dates
Thanks for the feedback ! This requires original research in the end. Once again, repeated - because all those who had the primary sources in their hands, say and reproduce, what's inside here.
Gathered in one chart here : http://www.ww2awards.com/person/5112
So, I agree to Wilco. It is to assume that this is a thing of reality. The argument of evidence is right concerning the Soldbuch itself. It's not a proof that other dates are wrong. It is evident only that those dates have been written on the Soldbuch. There is one more step to say/conclude, these are the correct award dates.
We had a in-depth review of the 1. Pz.Div., too, showing no typo or other result than :
KC - 14.09.1942 ; DKiG - 05.06.1942
So, I would stick to the original research of the basic awards documentation (Karteikarten) done by other researchers before. One thing which could help to clarify the seemingly conflicting dates, is a decent cross-read of the 1. Pz.Div. literature. Think about ceremonies, etc.
/ Bernd
Thanks for the feedback ! This requires original research in the end. Once again, repeated - because all those who had the primary sources in their hands, say and reproduce, what's inside here.
Gathered in one chart here : http://www.ww2awards.com/person/5112
So, I agree to Wilco. It is to assume that this is a thing of reality. The argument of evidence is right concerning the Soldbuch itself. It's not a proof that other dates are wrong. It is evident only that those dates have been written on the Soldbuch. There is one more step to say/conclude, these are the correct award dates.
We had a in-depth review of the 1. Pz.Div., too, showing no typo or other result than :
KC - 14.09.1942 ; DKiG - 05.06.1942
So, I would stick to the original research of the basic awards documentation (Karteikarten) done by other researchers before. One thing which could help to clarify the seemingly conflicting dates, is a decent cross-read of the 1. Pz.Div. literature. Think about ceremonies, etc.
/ Bernd
Re: Awardholders / unit
Agree Bernd, but also ceremonies could be of a later date than the actual awarding. Best cross-examining would be the actual documents of approval to the awarding, documents send to the unit with the awarding dates on them etc. and off course the awarding documents themselve. But still then there are no certainties. If I receive any soldbuch entry dates that differ (off course with as proof a scan of the pages in the soldbuch), I do often place that date also with a comment to it. This can mean that for instance on www.ww2awards.com there are several dates with the entry of a decoration. The for that moment stated "official" awarding date, the date mentioned in a soldbuch/Wehrpass, date of presentation ceremony etc.
Re: Awardholders / unit
Here is a DKiS holder (per Scheibert) that presents something of a problem:
Engel, Gerhard, 16.10.1943, Oberstleutnant, Füs.Rgt. 27
Engel’s entry, in part, in Die General des Heeres, 1921-1945, Band 3 lists the following:
27.03.1938 Adjutant der Wehrmacht beim Führer und Reichskanzler
18.10.1943-13.11.1943 kommandiert zum Bataillonsführer-Lehrgang in Antwerpen
20.11.1943-03.12.1943 kommandiert zum waffentechnischen Kursus
13.12.1943-22.01.1944 kommandiert zum Regimentsführer-Lehrgang in Döberitz
01.02.1944 Kommandeur des Füsilier-Regiments 27
19.07.1944 Kommandeur des Grenadier-Regiments 1097
Thus, I believe his DKiS was actually awarded for his service as Adjutant der Wehrmacht beim Führer und Reichskanzler rather than a regimental command that didn’t become effective until some 3 ½ months later.
Just curious, but what does Pazwall/Scherzer list for Engel? Thanks!
Best regards,
Shawn
Engel, Gerhard, 16.10.1943, Oberstleutnant, Füs.Rgt. 27
Engel’s entry, in part, in Die General des Heeres, 1921-1945, Band 3 lists the following:
27.03.1938 Adjutant der Wehrmacht beim Führer und Reichskanzler
18.10.1943-13.11.1943 kommandiert zum Bataillonsführer-Lehrgang in Antwerpen
20.11.1943-03.12.1943 kommandiert zum waffentechnischen Kursus
13.12.1943-22.01.1944 kommandiert zum Regimentsführer-Lehrgang in Döberitz
01.02.1944 Kommandeur des Füsilier-Regiments 27
19.07.1944 Kommandeur des Grenadier-Regiments 1097
Thus, I believe his DKiS was actually awarded for his service as Adjutant der Wehrmacht beim Führer und Reichskanzler rather than a regimental command that didn’t become effective until some 3 ½ months later.
Just curious, but what does Pazwall/Scherzer list for Engel? Thanks!
Best regards,
Shawn
Re: Awardholders / unit
Füsilier-Regiments 27 is given with P/S
Re: Awardholders / unit
Ouch, Yes, good find Shawn !
He is listed with the 12. ID [page 50], so wrong in the context here. I agree, this has to be a High Command matter formally, so direct OKH or OKW award. The "Adjutantur" was assigned to the OKW if I'm correct.
Obviously : his Stammtruppenteil [unit when entering service] - 5.(Preuß.)Inf.Rgt. (Reichswehr) - didn't play a role ; the last unit he served with before being appointed Adjutant - IR 27 - is mentioned.
It's a slight error in "Die Generale des Heeres" in my understanding. I have Schmundt (and Burgdorf) as "Adjutant der Wehrmacht.." and Engel holding position of "Adjutant des Heeres.." See the short summary of the Bundesarchiv :
http://www.bundesarchiv.de/bestaende_fi ... chbegriff=
Of note : his diary
German : Hildegard von Kotze (Hrsg.), Heeresadjutant bei Hitler 1938-1943. Aufzeichnungen des Major Engel , DVA, Stuttgart 1947
English : http://search.barnesandnoble.com/At-the ... 1853676550
It is to assume that the German Cross in Silver is mentioned there. (final check)
Addendum :
I'm not aware of a DKiS for the other Adjutanten Nicolaus von Below and Karl-Jesco von Puttkamer.
/ Bernd
He is listed with the 12. ID [page 50], so wrong in the context here. I agree, this has to be a High Command matter formally, so direct OKH or OKW award. The "Adjutantur" was assigned to the OKW if I'm correct.
Obviously : his Stammtruppenteil [unit when entering service] - 5.(Preuß.)Inf.Rgt. (Reichswehr) - didn't play a role ; the last unit he served with before being appointed Adjutant - IR 27 - is mentioned.
It's a slight error in "Die Generale des Heeres" in my understanding. I have Schmundt (and Burgdorf) as "Adjutant der Wehrmacht.." and Engel holding position of "Adjutant des Heeres.." See the short summary of the Bundesarchiv :
http://www.bundesarchiv.de/bestaende_fi ... chbegriff=
Of note : his diary
German : Hildegard von Kotze (Hrsg.), Heeresadjutant bei Hitler 1938-1943. Aufzeichnungen des Major Engel , DVA, Stuttgart 1947
English : http://search.barnesandnoble.com/At-the ... 1853676550
It is to assume that the German Cross in Silver is mentioned there. (final check)
Addendum :
I'm not aware of a DKiS for the other Adjutanten Nicolaus von Below and Karl-Jesco von Puttkamer.
/ Bernd
Re: Awardholders / unit
Corrections
Re : Gerhard Engel , DKiS
he is crossed out from the 12. ID list [p. 50]. Added to the OKW section [page 80] :
according to the newest info provided to the "KVK sticky" -> http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4#p1408244
I have edited his data set with the 11. Pz.Div. [page 8] :
The unit known until now - wrong - was "Werkstattleiter Panzer-Regiment 3".
/ Bernd
Re : Gerhard Engel , DKiS
he is crossed out from the 12. ID list [p. 50]. Added to the OKW section [page 80] :
Re : Kurt Reuschel , RK KVKmSEngel, Gerhard, 16.10.1943, Oberstleutnant, Adjutant des Heeres beim Führer und Reichskanzler [unit named officially : Füs.Rgt. 27]
according to the newest info provided to the "KVK sticky" -> http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 4#p1408244
I have edited his data set with the 11. Pz.Div. [page 8] :
We had a review + correction, but I missed to cross out the data set on the 2. PD list. Sorry, done now !Reuschel, Kurt, 08.12.1944, Oberfeldwebel, Werkstattkompanie/Pz.Rgt. 15
The unit known until now - wrong - was "Werkstattleiter Panzer-Regiment 3".
/ Bernd
Re: Awardholders / unit
Can we have a re-check please for :
Stumbled upon him handling this input by Jan-Hendrik over in the "High Scorers" sticky :
Ob.Kdo. HGr.Mitte mentions StuGesch.Abt.1007 (7.ID) for destroying 44 tanks between 9.7. and 29.7.44, of them alone 18 by an Lt. Straub
So, obviously the 2./7 callled "Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1007" in July '44 already !
I noticed he is not listed in the 7. ID DKiG list. Date is 23.05.1944. Unit Pz.Jg.Abt. 7 as well ?
Of note : we have listed this Close Combat Clasp in Gold holder with 23. Panzer-Division
regards
Bernd
KC , correctly listed with 7. Infanterie-Division [page 4].47. Straub, Johann 12.08.1944 Leutnant Zugführer i. d. Pz.Jäg.Abt 7
Stumbled upon him handling this input by Jan-Hendrik over in the "High Scorers" sticky :
Ob.Kdo. HGr.Mitte mentions StuGesch.Abt.1007 (7.ID) for destroying 44 tanks between 9.7. and 29.7.44, of them alone 18 by an Lt. Straub
So, obviously the 2./7 callled "Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 1007" in July '44 already !
I noticed he is not listed in the 7. ID DKiG list. Date is 23.05.1944. Unit Pz.Jg.Abt. 7 as well ?
Of note : we have listed this Close Combat Clasp in Gold holder with 23. Panzer-Division
Another man ? / no confusion/typos ?Straub, Johann, 00.00.1945, Leutnant, Zugführer i. d. 2./Pz.Pi.Btl 51
regards
Bernd
Re: Awardholders / unit
Straub, Johann
RK 12-08-1944 Zugführer Panzerjäger-Abteilung 7 / 7.Infanterie-Division as Leutnant received the DKiG on 23rd May 1944 as Leutnant in Panzerjäger-Abteilung 7. http://www.ww2awards.com/person/19267
I have more data from his son, will add that soon.
There is another Johann Straub, but received the NKSiG in 1945, unknown date as Leutnant, Zugführer 2. / Panzerpionier-Bataillon 51 / 23.Panzer-Division So this is not the same man (this Johann Straub not knwon to son other Johann Straub).
RK 12-08-1944 Zugführer Panzerjäger-Abteilung 7 / 7.Infanterie-Division as Leutnant received the DKiG on 23rd May 1944 as Leutnant in Panzerjäger-Abteilung 7. http://www.ww2awards.com/person/19267
I have more data from his son, will add that soon.
There is another Johann Straub, but received the NKSiG in 1945, unknown date as Leutnant, Zugführer 2. / Panzerpionier-Bataillon 51 / 23.Panzer-Division So this is not the same man (this Johann Straub not knwon to son other Johann Straub).
Re: Awardholders / unit
Thanks Wilco ! the DKiG is added to the 7. ID list.
/ Bernd
/ Bernd
Etthöfer, Alois
Good evening.
I think that there's an error with the date of the Ehrenblattspange won by Alois Etthöfer, he is listed with the 4. SS-Polizei-Panzer-Grenadier-Division as follows:
DKiG data: 23.10.1942, Hauptmann, 3./SS-Pol.Art.Rgt.
Ehrenblattspange data: 08.02.1945, Oberleutnant, 3./SS-Pol.Art.Rgt.
He is listed 8-2-1942 in http://www.ww2awards.com/person/30034
I hope that everybody is enjoying Christmas.
Keep it up and happy new year 2010.
Best regards.
Jordi
I think that there's an error with the date of the Ehrenblattspange won by Alois Etthöfer, he is listed with the 4. SS-Polizei-Panzer-Grenadier-Division as follows:
DKiG data: 23.10.1942, Hauptmann, 3./SS-Pol.Art.Rgt.
Ehrenblattspange data: 08.02.1945, Oberleutnant, 3./SS-Pol.Art.Rgt.
He is listed 8-2-1942 in http://www.ww2awards.com/person/30034
I hope that everybody is enjoying Christmas.
Keep it up and happy new year 2010.
Best regards.
Jordi
Re: Awardholders / unit
Jordi,
You are correct, the award date for Alois Etthöfer's EBS is 08.02.1942. Thanks!
Best regards,
Shawn
You are correct, the award date for Alois Etthöfer's EBS is 08.02.1942. Thanks!
Best regards,
Shawn
Re: Awardholders / unit
Spotted a typo in NJG.3, if you add (Raht, Gerhard 24.06.1944 Hauptmann Staffelkapitän 4./NJG 3) into the count, then the total for this unit would be 11 KC (9 RK + 1 EL + 1 Br). 
72.Infanterie-Division
Hello everybody.
I miss the data of the Ehrenblattspange won by the winner of the Ritterkreuz Heinrich Press:
Press, Heinrich; 15-1-1944; Hauptmann; Kommandeur;II. / Infanterie-Regiment 105
Source: http://www.ww2awards.com/person/38569
Checking the 72.Infanterie-Division I have found next winner of the Ehrenblattspange:
Prehs, Heinrich, 05.01.1944, Hauptmann, I./Gren.Rgt. 105
At first I thought that they were the same person with an error while writting the surname, although I wonder if they are two different winners right now. Does anyone have a clue about it?
Best regards.
Jordi
I miss the data of the Ehrenblattspange won by the winner of the Ritterkreuz Heinrich Press:
Press, Heinrich; 15-1-1944; Hauptmann; Kommandeur;II. / Infanterie-Regiment 105
Source: http://www.ww2awards.com/person/38569
Checking the 72.Infanterie-Division I have found next winner of the Ehrenblattspange:
Prehs, Heinrich, 05.01.1944, Hauptmann, I./Gren.Rgt. 105
At first I thought that they were the same person with an error while writting the surname, although I wonder if they are two different winners right now. Does anyone have a clue about it?
Best regards.
Jordi
Re: Awardholders / unit
Hi Jordi!
according to Ehrenblatt des Deutschen Heeres from 15.1.1944
a Hauptmann Heinrich Prehs "Batailons-Führer in einem Grenadierregiment"
was awarded the Ehrenblattspange
according to the Bundeswehr-Wehrpass of RKT Heinrich Press
he was awarded the Ehrenblattspange on 15.1.1944
I think its the same man.....
chris44
according to Ehrenblatt des Deutschen Heeres from 15.1.1944
a Hauptmann Heinrich Prehs "Batailons-Führer in einem Grenadierregiment"
was awarded the Ehrenblattspange
according to the Bundeswehr-Wehrpass of RKT Heinrich Press
he was awarded the Ehrenblattspange on 15.1.1944
I think its the same man.....
chris44