Awards (OL, Sw. & Diam.) personally bestowed by Hitler

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Dieter Zinke, askropp and Frech.
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Elwyn W
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Post by Elwyn W » 22 Jun 2004 13:28

No 2 is ObstLt Josef Bregenzer, EL#427

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Elwyn W
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Post by Elwyn W » 22 Jun 2004 13:52

#5 is Hptm Helmut Kalbitz EL#366
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Elwyn W
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Post by Elwyn W » 22 Jun 2004 13:58

#6 could be Josef Karl, actually. Unfortunately there seems to be only one pic of him, the one at http://www.das-ritterkreuz.de.
#7 looks more like Möse, or maybe Schwerdfeger??

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FANGIO
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Post by FANGIO » 23 Jun 2004 13:36

Hi everybody!
Here's Ludwig Crüwel receiving the Eich:
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FANGIO
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Post by FANGIO » 23 Jun 2004 13:38

One more. Muñoz Grandes with Hitler. I don't know if he is receiving the RK or Eich. Somebody knows?
Pic: Akira Takiguchi
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FANGIO
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Post by FANGIO » 23 Jun 2004 13:43

Last ones.
Adalbert Schulz receiving the Eich.
Two of Tolsdorff: one receiving the Eich and the other receiving the Brill.
In all the photos I posted I don't know the location, not even the date. Could somebody help me with this?
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Elwyn W
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Post by Elwyn W » 23 Jun 2004 13:50

Since Rudolf Schmundt seemed to be hanging around Hitler during these award ceremonies, as in the one with Crüwel, could the mystery general standing next to Hermann Breith that no one could identify be Schmundt?

Breith got the swords 21.02.44. Schmundt was a full gen d inf by then.

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Elwyn W
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Post by Elwyn W » 23 Jun 2004 13:53

In middle Tolsdorff receiving El pic, extreme right was Bäke. Who was second from right wand who was RKT on extreme left?

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Post by Denis » 24 Jun 2004 08:11

freiherr wrote:In middle Tolsdorff receiving El pic, extreme right was Bäke. Who was second from right wand who was RKT on extreme left?

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Freiherr


Hello,

Many thanks for adding such interesting and nice pictures.
Freiherr, regarding your question, here is the answer :

"After 13/09/43, location unknown
WH ceremony
from left to right :
- Obst. Paul Schultz (284. EL)
- Obst. dR. Walter Lange (300. EL)
- Major Theodor Tolsdorff (302. EL)
- Obst. Günther Pape (301. EL)
- Major d.R. Franz Bäke (262. EL) "

Thanks also for confirming Bregenzer and Kalbitz ! As for the unidentified NCO, I am almost sure that this not Johann Schwerdfeger because I have seen a photo in Previtera's book where, as far as I can see, he is seemingly with 2 Heer officers, being bestowed the OL by AH.

I don't think the unidentified general standing next Breith is Rudolf Schmundt (see pic posted by Mark V. on page 4). He doesn't look like him (Schmundt was more "skinny" IMHO).

By the way, by surfing, I have found a new addition. Pay a visit to this site :
http://www.luftwaffe39-45.cjb.net/
and click the Ases button then the Introducao one. You will find a picture displaying LW OL holders after such a ceremony. They are identified as :
Weissenberger, Lent, Lippe-Weissenfeld, Meurer, Ehrler, Schroer and Kirschner. I think this pic is related to the following ceremony (see pic posted by Freiherr on page 3 and reposted below) :

"After 02/08/43, location unknown
LW ceremony
From left to right :
- Major Werner Streib ?? (197. EL)
- Major Gustav Rödel (255. EL)
- Major Hans-Joachim Herrmann ?? (269. EL)
- Hptm. Heinrich Ehrler (265. EL)
- Hptm. Werner Schroer (268. EL)
- Oblt. Joachim Kirschner (267. EL)"

Taking into accounbt this new information, I have tried to update this entry. Here are my assumptions :

- Major Helmut Lent (32. Schw) : should be the first one, even if we cannot see him, as he is the highest officer in seniority and being there to be awarded the Schwertern instead of the Eichenlaub
-Hptm. Egmond Prinz zur Lippe Weissenfeld (263. EL) : by deduction, see my other comments below

- Hptm. Manfred Meurer (264. EL) : this would be my guess when comparing haircut (!!) of the 2nd soldier from left between the pic posted by Freiherr and the group photo on the LW website
- Oblt. Joachim Kirschner (267. EL) : although being an Oblt. and as such, he should be after Ehrler and Schroer, this would be my guess. The pic from the LW website quoted above shows a tall guy and the pic on das-ritterkreuz is rather similar with the fourth soldier beginning at the right side
- Hptm. Heinrich Ehrler (265. EL) : would be my guess, even if we can't clearly see his very particular mouth
- Hptm. Werner Schroer (268. EL) : definitively him
- Oblt. Theodor Weissenberger (266. EL) : instead of Kirschner, see his pic on das-ritterkreuz.de for a confirmation

I am going to update the full listing.

Thanks again
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Elwyn W
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Post by Elwyn W » 24 Jun 2004 13:23

Hi Denis,

I have a better version of this pic!

I follow the lines of your argument -- that the tall man in my pic could be the the tall man identified as Kirschner in the outdoors pic. But
(1) the ranks are really all screwed up. An ObLt couldn't be standing in between four Hptm's!. Just not very German!!
(2) And in this outdoors pic, Weissenberger was standing next to Kirschner and he was almost as tall. Whereas the guy shaking hands with Hitler in my pic was as short as Ehrler and Schroer so he really couldn't be Weissenberger.
(3) However, date for outdoors pic was 02.08.43, the same day!!

I will think about this over the weekend. Great puzzle!

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Freiherr
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Dieter Zinke
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Post by Dieter Zinke » 24 Jun 2004 16:51

freiherr wrote:In middle Tolsdorff receiving El pic, extreme right was Bäke. Who was second from right wand who was RKT on extreme left?

Cheers
Freiherr


Hallo Freiherr,

the second from right is Pape.

Oberstab

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FANGIO
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Post by FANGIO » 25 Jun 2004 13:08

Found more pics: Rudel, Kurt Meyer and Walter Nowotny.
Location and date: unknown (except the date on 2nd pic).
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FANGIO
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Post by FANGIO » 25 Jun 2004 13:21

Please, could somebody give me the names for pics Km and Km2?
And on the third pic, is Kumm receiving the Eich or RK?
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FANGIO
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Post by FANGIO » 25 Jun 2004 13:25

Last ones:
The second pic has been posted (I think by Freiherr) but here we can see Hitler saluting Gille.
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Elwyn W
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Post by Elwyn W » 25 Jun 2004 13:49

First guy on the extreme left of KM.jpg was KvKp Wolfgang Lüth.

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Freiherr

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