Generalmajor [?] Werner Kirsten

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Gareth Collins
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Generalmajor [?] Werner Kirsten

Post by Gareth Collins » 01 Sep 2004 22:18

Does anyone have ANY information on this officer? Biblio has virtually nothing.
Any help appreciated

Gareth

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USAF1986
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Post by USAF1986 » 01 Sep 2004 22:57

Gareth,

Not much I’m afraid, but here are Generalmajor Werner Kirsten’s WWI decorations from the 1 May 1930 Rangliste des Deutschen Reichsheeres. As of that date, he was in the 2nd Company of the 7th (Prussian) Infantry Regiment. He is likewise listed in this same company and regiment in the 1 May 1926 Rangliste.

• Prussian Iron Cross, 1st Class (1914)
• Prussian Iron Cross, 2nd Class (1914)
• Saxon Albert Order, Knight 2nd Class with Swords
• Austrian Military Merit Cross, 3rd Class with War Decoration and Gold Bar (denoting a second award)
• Turkish War Medal (“Iron Crescent”)
• Wound Badge in Silver
• German Army Observer’s Badge

Best regards,
Shawn

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JPK
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Post by JPK » 02 Sep 2004 11:22

USAF1986 wrote:Gareth,

Not much I’m afraid, but here are Generalmajor Werner Kirsten’s WWI decorations from the 1 May 1930 Rangliste des Deutschen Reichsheeres. As of that date, he was in the 2nd Company of the 7th (Prussian) Infantry Regiment. He is likewise listed in this same company and regiment in the 1 May 1926 Rangliste.

• Prussian Iron Cross, 1st Class (1914)
• Prussian Iron Cross, 2nd Class (1914)
• Saxon Albert Order, Knight 2nd Class with Swords
• Austrian Military Merit Cross, 3rd Class with War Decoration and Gold Bar (denoting a second award)
• Turkish War Medal (“Iron Crescent”)
• Wound Badge in Silver
• German Army Observer’s Badge

Best regards,
Shawn
[list=]




in Rangliste 1914
Lt Kirsten (22.3.13 C) 10/Füsilier-Regiment Nr 38

in Ehren-Rangliste des ehemaligen Dt Heeres von 1914
Lt Kirsten in Füs.Rgt Nr 38
OL im RH (7.IR)

in biblio verlag He was Leutnant 22.03.1913
OL (20) 20.06.1918
Kdr Infanterie Regiment 7 Oppeln
28.08.1892-10.10.1951 in udSSr


in Rangliste d DTHeeres 1944/45
Oberst Kirsten Pz Gren Rgt 101 1.3.40 (18) same as Werner Kirsten GM 01.09.1943..

that's all .but why he died in Russia?
[/list]

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Stauffenberg II
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Post by Stauffenberg II » 02 Sep 2004 18:44

Rangliste 1931 (01.05.1931):
Kdt. 2. Kp./7. (Preußisches) Infanterie-Regiment

Rangliste 1932 (01.05.1932):
Kdt. 2. Kp./7. (Preußisches) Infanterie-Regiment

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J.N. Houterman
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Post by J.N. Houterman » 05 Sep 2004 15:48

Heereseinteilung 01.1939:
Kommandeur III. Bataillon/Infanterie-Regiment 101 at Leisnig

Deutsches Kreuz in Gold
09.12.1941
Kommandeur, Infaterie-Regiment 321


Cheers,

Hans

Rossano
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by Rossano » 21 Mar 2011 15:56

Hello everybody
Is the Oberst Kirsten 6.44 as Kdt. Verb.Stb 735 "Werner" ? If he was promoted 1.9.43 to Gen.Maj. why all sources do not report that and still in 1944 he is still listed as Oberst ? Maybe typing mistake for "1.9.44" ? Finally he is reported (in a source) to be 9.39 as Kdr. Inf.Rgt. 7 Oppeln, but it must be wrong as this Rgt. was 8.39 in Schweidnitz (not in Oppeln) and most important thing there is no trace of him in the Rgts.history. So maybe was he 9.39 still Kdr. III./IR.101 ?
Thanks for help Rossano

HFK
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by HFK » 21 Mar 2011 21:17

Helo JPK, Generalmajor Kirsten died in Russia on Oct 10, 1951, being held as a POW. Sadly, Keilig does not list him in either book. And Band 6 of Biblio, only says he was CO of Regt 6, no dates given.
Harry

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by Dieter Zinke » 21 Mar 2011 23:40

HFK wrote: .... Generalmajor Kirsten died in Russia ...
Harry
He was never a General !! My doubts are not unfounded:
He is not listed in
Folttmann, Josef; Möller, Hanns: Opfergang der Generale. Die Verluste der Generale und Admirale und der im gleichen Dienstrang stehenden sonstigen Offiziere und Beamten im Zweiten Weltkrieg. Verlag Bernard & Graefe, Berlin 1952
or in
Bezborodova, Irina V.: Generäle des Dritten Reiches in sowjetischer Hand. Veröffentlichung des Ludwig Boltzmann-Instituts für Kriegsfolgen-Forschung, Graz-Wien; Herausgegeben von Stefan Karner, Band 4; Graz, 1998

http://www.lexikon-deutschegenerale.de/k_dd1.html
has him (ohne Nachweis: documentation is being withheld)
also
http://www.unithistories.com/units_inde ... sonsx.html
with double question mark



Dieter Z.

Macguffy
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by Macguffy » 30 Mar 2011 22:50

Oberst Werner Kirsten [RDA 1.o3.40 (8) ] was disqualified by General Bergen, Kdr.299. Inf.-Division in spring 1943.
Gen.Oberst Rendulic dismissed him in may 1943, for Kirsten failed total.
In january 1944 Kirsten was orderd to Mil.Bfh. Frankreich and took over the fieldcommanders-office 735.
In january 1945 Kirsten he was orderd to the military distrikt-command Krummau.
You will find Kirsten in the DAL "S" 1944 , page 212 - for Kirsten was removed from the troop-officers.
There are no doubts: Kirsten was never promoved to Generalmajor !
Macguffy

Rossano
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by Rossano » 31 Mar 2011 11:23

Macguffy wrote:Oberst Werner Kirsten [RDA 1.o3.40 (8) ] was disqualified by General Bergen, Kdr.299. Inf.-Division in spring 1943.
Gen.Oberst Rendulic dismissed him in may 1943, for Kirsten failed total.
In january 1944 Kirsten was orderd to Mil.Bfh. Frankreich and took over the fieldcommanders-office 735.
In january 1945 Kirsten he was orderd to the military distrikt-command Krummau.
You will find Kirsten in the DAL "S" 1944 , page 212 - for Kirsten was removed from the troop-officers.
There are no doubts: Kirsten was never promoved to Generalmajor !
Macguffy
Thanks for Your precious informations. I still have a few questions, maybe can You solve them too ?
1) was he 8/9.39 still Kdr. III./IR.101 ? (IR.7 Oppeln is wrong !)
2) was he Kdr. IR.321 from 12.39 ? Until when ? (he is reported to be there as Kdr. in autumn 41).
3) You write that in spring 43 he was in the 299.ID (Gen. Bergen), but according to the divisional history Kirsten is neither reported nor listed in the division. So what was he doing (from ?) in the 299.ID ?
4) You also write that he was ordered to WBK. Krummau, in which position ? Was he its Kdr. ?
Thanks again for Your further contribution to solve all gaps about this officer.... Rossano

Macguffy
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by Macguffy » 31 Mar 2011 11:49

Hello Rossano,

Kirsten was Commander of Troop-exercise-ground Lamsdorf from 1.o3.1937 to 12.10.37.
His carreer in detail (Source: H.Pers.Amt - Personal-Datei):
12.10.37 Kdr. III. / Inf.Rgt. 101
27. 9.39 Kdr. III. / Inf.Rgt. 279
1.12.39 Kdr. Inf.Rgt. 321
15.5.42 FüRes OKH / Wehrkrs.Kdo. IV
1.o9.42 Kdr. Inf.Rgt. 528
17.2.43 FüRes OKH / Wehrkrs.kdo. IV -disqualified-
3.o1.44 orderd to Mil.Bfh. Frankreich
1.o4.44 deputy commander of field-commanding-office 735
12.5.44 commander of field-commanding-office 375 -def.-
1.o1.45 commander of military district office Krummau

greetings
Macguffy

Macguffy
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by Macguffy » 31 Mar 2011 12:07

hello Rossano

The promotion of W. Kirsten with RDA 1.o9.43 (9) was not legal, for Kirsten had been disqualified. The personal-authorities draw the promotion back.

greetings
Macguffy

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Dieter Zinke
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by Dieter Zinke » 31 Mar 2011 14:41

Hallo Macguffy,

simply to avoid misunderstandings we should in the first instance use the specific and correct german denomination of the units :milwink:

The respective retranslation promotes fatal mistakes :wink: :wink:

Here an example:
Feldkommandant (field-commanding-office)
WBK (military distrikt-command )
Heeresgruppe (army group)
Armeegruppe (also army group)
Armeeabteilung ( ?? )
Reichskriegsgericht: mistakely and not correct retranslated to "Reichsmiltärgericht"

Thank you for your understanding

Dieter Zinke, mod.

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askropp
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Oberst Werner Kirsten (1892-1951)

Post by askropp » 05 Nov 2017 15:13

*28.08.1892 Fremerssen [Where is that supposed to be? Spelling?]
+10.10.1951 [?]

13.10.1921 Heirat mit [?]
4 Töchter (*1922/1923/1924/1934)

22.03.1913 Leutnant (C)
18.06.1918 Oberleutnant
01.07.1922 neues RDA vom 20.06.1918 (20) erhalten
01.02.1927 Hauptmann (9)
01.09.1934 Major (30)
01.03.1937 Oberstleutnant (53)
01.03.1940 Oberst (18)

26.08.1911 eingetreten als Fahnenjunker
08.08.1914 ins Feld als Kompanieoffizier
14.11.1916 in der Fliegerersatzabteilung 3
01.02.1918 Adjutant des Luftpostbataillons beim AOK Eichhorn
01.08.1918 in der Fliegerabteilung 303
20.04.1919 Kompanieführer
15.02.1920 Kompanieoffizier
01.01.1921 im Infanterieregiment 7
01.01.1922 Führer des Nachrichtenzuges des I. / Infanterieregiment 7
01.05.1923 Kompanieführer
01.04.1924 in der 2. / Infanterieregiment 7 (Oppeln) [laut Stellenbesetzung]
01.10.1926 Chef der 2. / Infanterieregiment 7 (Oppeln)
30.11.1932 ausgeschieden
01.06.1934 wieder angestellt im Stab der Kommandantur von Oppeln
15.10.1935 im Stab der Heeresdienststelle 3 (Oppeln) [laut Stellenbesetzung]
06.10.1936 mit der Wahrnehmung der Geschäfte als Kommandant des Truppenübungsplatzes Lamsdorf beauftragt
12.10.1937 Kommandeur des III. / Infanterieregiment 101 (Leisnig)
27.09.1939 Kommandeur des III. / Infanterieregiment 279
01.12.1939 Kommandeur des Infanterieregiments 321
15.05.1942 Führerreserve OKH (IV)
01.09.1942 Kommandeur des Infanterieregiments 528
17.02.1943 Führerreserve OKH (IV)
03.01.1944 kommandiert zum Stab des Militärbefehlshabers in Frankreich
01.04.1944 Feldkommandant 735 (bis 12.05.1944 mWdGb)
01.01.1945 Kommandeur des Wehrbezirkskommandos Krummau

27.09.1939 Spange zum EK II
01.07.1940 Spange zum EK I
13.12.1941 Deutsches Kreuz in Gold
20.08.1942 Ostmedaille
Er ist wieder da. Aber auch dieses Mal wird er nicht siegen!

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JakeV
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Re: Generalmajor Werner Kirsten

Post by JakeV » 05 Nov 2017 15:44

According to Volksbund:

Oberst Werner Kirsten
* 28.08.1892 in Tremessen / Provinz Posen
† 10.10.1951 im Speziallazarett Nr. 1893 Perwouralsk / Sowjetunion (in sowjetische Kriegsgefangenschaft)

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