German Generals 1920-1924

Discussions on the personalities of the Wehrmacht and of the organizations not covered in the other sections. Hosted by askropp and Frech.
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 23 Jan 2015 22:01

Another question: GL Klotz is listed as ranking from 01.10.1921 without number. This indicates he was the only officer promoted on that day. But my notes (in this case probably from "Die Generale des Heeres") show GL Johannes Ehrhardt as ranking from the same day. Is this an error?
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 25 Jan 2015 14:19

Do I understand it right that the 1922 Rangliste is the first and oldest one of the Reichswehr?

I noticed another strange fact: The 1922 DAL shows Möhl and Reinhardt as GL from 16.06.1920 with numbers (1) and (2). On or to rank from the same date, several other officers were also promoted to GL. As far as I know, they were Berendt, Rumschöttel, Seeckt, Seiffert and Weber. I have the number of (1a) for Berendt, which would fit well so far, but no numbers for the other four. Either they were (3) to (6), or they never got one.

Now let's take a look on the GM dates of rank for all those officers:

08.04.1915 Möhl
18.04.1915 Weber
26.06.1915 Seeckt
06.06.1916 Seiffert
16.06.1916 Rumschöttel
27.01.1917 Berendt
01.10.1919 Reinhardt

As you can see, Möhl as the (1) makes perfectly sense, but Berendt as (1a) and Reinhardt as (2)? This would seem like a snub for all the others, especially as Reinhardt was not even a General in the Imperial Army. For all what we know, Seeckt, who was now Chef der Heeresleitung and overtook even GLs Hülsen (since 22.03.1918) and Bergmann (since 15.07.1918) with his later promotion to GdI, ought to be the (1), or at least in front of Berendt and Reinhardt, if we adhere to the seniority as GM.

Now we consider another fact: all the officers who ranked Berendt and Reinhardt were either promoted (Seeckt) or retired between December 1920 and September 1921. Without them, the ranking makes sense again. Thus my question: Could it be that the RDA numbers were assigned retroactively, maybe when the first Reichswehr DAL was designed? Does anyone know when the Reichswehr replaced the Imperial letter system with the numbers?
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 27 Jan 2015 15:03

I just realized that I have to dismiss my own theory ... Berendt became GdA in September 1921, so he must have gotten his (1a) a considerable time earlier. One could speculate whether the elderly officers Rumschöttel, Seiffert and Weber were generals without RDA because their retirement was already planned, but the Seeckt enigma would remain even in such a case. Do we have a similar case among the GMs of 16.06.1920? So far, I have no number for Paul Grautoff (with positions 1-4 already filled).
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 08 Feb 2015 12:57

According to a hint from santiago167 in another thread (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 7#p1927667), the first RDAs were apparently assigned on 01.02.1922 (just as I suspected above).

This leaves still the question why Berendt got a RDA as GL when he was already GdA. Maybe active officers got rank numbers for all promotions since WW1?
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by VJK » 08 Feb 2015 13:24

askropp wrote:Fine, one problem solved!

But I have another question on the 1922 DAL. It lists the three Char. GMs Huebner, Dewall and Bram all as serving officers, but my notes (probably from "Die Generale des Heeres") say that Huebner was retired simultaneously with his promotion, as most Char. officers were. As he is listed on the DAL, this is obviously wrong? If so, when did he retire?
According to Kabisch, Huebner retired on 31.03.1922 as char. GM.

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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 09 Feb 2015 14:38

Thank you very much!
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 21 Jul 2015 17:14

Could somebody supply the GM RDA of Friedrich Lindemann (1868-1954)? He retired as Char. GL in 1923.
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by santiago167 » 21 Jul 2015 20:50

Hi Askropp

Friedrich Lindemann RDAs

Oberst 15.7.1018 A2a RDA Reichsheer (3)

GM 1.10.1922 (-)

Abschied und Char. GL 30.4.1923

Stellenbesetzung Reichsheeres am 1.10.1919 Regimentskomandeure im Infanterie Schule

Stellenbesetzung Reichsheeres am 16.5.1920 Regimentskomandeure im Infanterie Schule

Stellenbesetzung Reichsheeres am 1.10.1920 Regimentskomandeure im Infanterie Schule

Stellenbesetzung Reichsheeres am 1.10.1921 Lehrgangleiter im Infanterie Schule

Dienstaltersliste Reichsheeres am 1.2.1922 Lehrgangleiter im Infanterie Schule

Stellenbesetzung Reichsheeres am 1.4.1923 Kommandeur der Infanterie Schule

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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 21 Jul 2015 21:36

Thank you very much! You list Lindemann as GM mit RDA vom 01.10.1922 (-), but as he shared this rank date with Friedrich Salzenberg, shouldn't they both have gotten rank numbers? Do you know if there are any numbers for Lindemann and / or Salzenberg in the 01.04.1923 DAL?
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by santiago167 » 22 Jul 2015 20:37

Sorry Askrop

Lindemann GM RDA is 1.5.1922 (-) and Salzenberg 1.10.1922 (-)

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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 27 Jul 2015 13:30

Does anybody know the birth date, promotion date and death place of GM Ernst Wilberg, Artillerieführer VI (died on 24.02.1921)?
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by JakeV » 27 Jul 2015 18:33

For Wilberg I have

* 28.04.1867 in [?]

As for the place of death, the Militär-Wochenblatt says he died unexpectedly of a heart attack, so he could probably have died while in service at Münster (Westfalen). The Einwohnerbuch (1921) says that his widow lived there, in Klosterstraße 90.

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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 31 Jul 2015 21:22

For some reason, GM Hans von Feldmann is missing in the 1922 DAL. He retired only in April, so he should be listed. Is it because he was Staatssekretär? The H-Friko generals (not to mention the Ärzte and Veterinäre) are also never listed in the DALs. In any case, Feldmann should be included in the 1922 Stellenbesetzung.
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by Aisingioro » 01 Aug 2015 12:55

Char. General der Infanterie Hans von Feldmann ?

Aisin
Feldmann.jpg
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Re: German Generals 1920-1924

Post by askropp » 02 Aug 2015 21:59

All sources say that Feldmann's highest rank was Char. GL a.D.
If that is Feldmann, the question is why he is wearing the shoulder boards of a full General.

Possible answers are:
1.) The officer is in fact NOT Feldmann.
2.) Feldmann was promoted to Char. General der Infanterie at some point (When? Why?).
3.) The photo has been altered (e.g. by erroneously adding two pips to a GM picture).
4.) Feldmann wore the insignia of a rank he was not entitled to (seems very improbable).

The question has been already discussed here, but without any conclusion. Does anybody know more about Feldmann?
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