KStN 433 Query

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KStN201
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KStN 433 Query

Postby KStN201 » 20 Mar 2017 20:05

Found the attached image in one of John Calvin's rolls (R1940). My query is: what exactly is this document? It is labelled as KStN 433 but the total numbers don't quite agree with the 1/11/41 KStN. The label in the top right hand corner seem to indicate that it is an 'Experience Report' dated 7/2/42. Could this perhaps be the forerunner of the 433a KStN or the reduction in manning numbers or the change to Panje Wagens later in 1942?

The noting of the 4 fahrer vom sattel, the 15 kanoniere, and 9 munitions kanoniere in Munitions Staffel 1 & 2 are particularly puzzling! Overall it seems to indicate the change from Wagens to Panje Wagens.

If anyone can shed any light on the relevance/significance of this document that would be very useful.

David
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Christoph Awender
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Re: KStN 433 Query

Postby Christoph Awender » 22 Mar 2017 15:47

Hello,

As you said this is an "proposal" for a new KStN according to the experience report attached to it.

/Christoph

KStN201
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Re: KStN 433 Query

Postby KStN201 » 23 Mar 2017 17:36

Thanks Christoph that's what I thought it was. The numbers used perhaps indicate it was a draft of what became KStN 433a with 3 guns instead of 4.

David

Leo Niehorster
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Re: KStN 433 Query

Postby Leo Niehorster » 24 Mar 2017 10:15

Based on a comparison of the motorized versions of the 01.11.41 four-gun and the 01.04.42 three-gun batteries, the only difference between KStN 403 / 01.11.41 and KStN 403a /01.04.42 would be one less gun, its crew members, and corresponding draft horses. The headquarters and service units remained the same. (Possibly the horse-drawn batteries also had one less ammunition wagon plus driver.)

Unfortunately, none of these horse-drawn battery KStN have been found, so this proposal might give hints about either or both missing KStN, and by extension, those of the also missing 15cm sFH batteries.

:cry:
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Leo
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KStN201
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Re: KStN 433 Query

Postby KStN201 » 25 Mar 2017 15:58

Leo,
Thanks for that.

I was trying to construct a KStN 433 for 1/11/41 from available online documents but then stumbled upon a Gliederung in a German Light Field Artillery book I had! The numbers shown in the Gliederung almost tie in with the 171 man total given in various documents.

The main difference is that the Gliederung states that Munitions Staffel 2 was the same as Staffel 1. However, based on other documents this wasn’t in fact the case. If the officer and melder are removed from Staffel 2 the numbers agree. To back this up I used the document above to sketch out the KStN using the Nr. der Zeile lines noted. This confirms my theory that the officer and melder are not part of Staffel 2.

The other difference with the number in the Gliederung is that it shows the Gepacktross as horse drawn. Other sources show the Gepacktross as motorized with 1 truck. The document above describes the Gepacktross as (mot.) (1 driver) which implies, I think, that it could also be horse drawn (2 drivers). Therefore, the numbers balance to 171 with a motorized Gepacktross and 172 (per the Gliederung) with a horse drawn Gepacktross.

Based on what Leo says above about 434a etc it may be easier to construct 459. Perhaps just adjusting the extra 32 men by the 4 guns means 8 men each.

Moving on now to try to construct (the also lost) KStNs 403, 582 and 590!!

David

Leo Niehorster
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Re: KStN 433 Query

Postby Leo Niehorster » 13 Apr 2017 12:54

Besides the differences mentioned by KSTN 201 in his
Gliederung in a German Light Field Artillery book,
dated 1.11.1941, I noticed other strange details:

— the battery headquarters (Batterietrupp) is divided into three detachments (Staffeln). Usually there is just a command section and a headquarters section, the latter including the pack radio units.

— The note under the Nachrichten-Staffel states "... ber.fernspr. 3 reiten im Batterietrupp". The telephone sections did not get renamed to until 1944. However, the name Fernsprechtrupp also got changed to Feldkabeltrupp. Also, the Signal Detachment (Nachrichten-Staffel) normally includes all the telephone sections.

— There are separate Geschütz-Staffel, 1. Munitions-Staffel, 2. Munitions-Staffel, and Gefechtstroß. Usually, there is a firing battery (Gefechtsbatterie), divided into the Firing Detachment (Geschützstaffel); 1st & 2nd Ammunition Detachments (1. & 2. Munitionsstaffel), and the Combat Trains (Gefechtstroß).

Puzzled. :?
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Leo
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