Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

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jpz4
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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby jpz4 » 17 May 2017 23:47

What question? I think you got all the answers you need already. Reread the posts in this thread if you have to.

The four comes first because that's what the division is called. Just like in the US, where it's the Fourth Infantry Division and not Infantry Division Four. Battalions and regiments on the other hand have the number after the description of the type. That is the offical name of those units.

"3./II./FJR.2" does not exist. See Dunnigan's post. The third company in the second battalion is 7.Kp. (seventh company)

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby rspinola » 17 May 2017 23:59

jpz4 wrote:What question? I think you got all the answers you need already. Reread the posts in this thread if you have to.

The four comes first because that's what the division is called. Just like in the US, where it's the Fourth Infantry Division and not Infantry Division Four. Battalions and regiments on the other hand have the number after the description of the type. That is the offical name of those units.

"3./II./FJR.2" does not exist. See Dunnigan's post. The third company in the second battalion is 7.Kp. (seventh company)


No other questions, i was thanking you for answering all my questions. Reread the post.
I saw someone say "3./II./FJR.2" was another way but you're saying its not, that's all. I thought you could.

Thanks again.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby jpz4 » 18 May 2017 00:19

There are two problems with "3./II./FJR.2"

1) they didn't add battalion numbers in original documents if they also gave company numbers. The company numbers already tell the battalion. But if you do want to add the battalion for your readers, you could include the number. It is your choice.
2) "3./II./FJR.2" would not have existed. You would have to write 3./I./FJR.2 or 7./II./FJR.2 (I think you meant 7./II./FJR.2 in your example, right?)
The company numbers are unique, just like the letters of American companies.

I hope this makes everything clear.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby rspinola » 18 May 2017 00:41

jpz4 wrote:There are two problems with "3./II./FJR.2"

1) they didn't add battalion numbers in original documents if they also gave company numbers. The company numbers already tell the battalion. But if you do want to add the battalion for your readers, you could include the number. It is your choice.
2) "3./II./FJR.2" would not have existed. You would have to write 3./I./FJR.2 or 7./II./FJR.2 (I think you meant 7./II./FJR.2 in your example, right?)
The company numbers are unique, just like the letters of American companies.

I hope this makes everything clear.


Oh yes, i'm sorry that's what i meant.
As you said before, Companies 1-4 = Btl.1, Companies 5-8 = Btl.2, Companies 9-12 = Btl.3
If you add Division, use (1.FJD) after FJR.2
They only really went to 3 Btls per a Regiment (Sometimes 4), 4 Companies per a Battalion. (Sometimes 5)
This is just making sure i have everything right.

I rather do it the proper way so 3./FJR.2 than 3./II./FJR.2
Again, thank you for all your help.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby jpz4 » 18 May 2017 01:31

There is a difference between battalions that are part of a regiment, and those that are not.
So it is II./Fj.Rgt.6 but also Fs.Pi.Btl.2. Both are battalions, but one is part of a regiment so it is 2nd battalion of Regiment 6, and the other is simply Battalion 2 because it is not part of a regiment.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby Dunnigan » 18 May 2017 02:39

jpz4 wrote:The four comes first because that's what the division is called. Just like in the US, where it's the Fourth Infantry Division and not Infantry Division Four. Battalions and regiments on the other hand have the number after the description of the type. That is the offical name of those units.


To be sure, I believe it was only independent battalions that would have their number after their descriptor. So for the independent Tiger battalion it would be "schwere Panzer Abteilung 509", note its not "509th" but just "509" (per the missing dot). Component battalions of regiments would just be I. Btl or II. Btl (First Battalion, Second Battalion).

As Regiments were formed as individual entities, they likewise just had the number and not the ordinal, e.g. "Infanterie Regiment 131", not "131. Infanterie Regiment".

But yes, divisions had their numbers in the front as "4. FJD" as "Fourth Fallschirmjager Division" and not "Fallshirmjager Division 4"

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby rspinola » 18 May 2017 12:08

jpz4 wrote:There is a difference between battalions that are part of a regiment, and those that are not.
So it is II./Fj.Rgt.6 but also Fs.Pi.Btl.2. Both are battalions, but one is part of a regiment so it is 2nd battalion of Regiment 6, and the other is simply Battalion 2 because it is not part of a regiment.


They use "Btl." not "Bn.", is that correct? I think the US Military uses "Bn."
Most Battalions that weren't part of a Regiment were specialist correct?
Could it be like "Fj.Btl.1" or just a Fj. Infantry Battalion.
The company would be "5./Fs.Pi.Btl.2"
Post before you wrote "5./Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3" and you said the 3 = Division. Is that because the "5." tells you it's 2nd Battalion?

Again, thanks for the help.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby jpz4 » 18 May 2017 13:26

- period texts often use Btl. or Batl. and Abt. or Abtl. 'Bn ' is indeed a US abbreviation
- 5./Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3 means 5th batterie of Fallsch.Flak-Abteilung 3. The Abteilung part means it is not part of a regiment. If it had been part of a regiment I would have written 5./Fallsch.Flak-Rgt.3, but there was no regiment, just a battalion with five batteries. You always give the highest level of a unit. If a company/battery is part of a regiment you mention the regiment. If a company/battery is only part of a battalion you give the battalion name: Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3

@ Dunnigan, 'component battalion' is a nice way of putting it. I deliberately left out the 'independent' bit since I feared it would be more confusing with Heerestruppen which were considerably more independent.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby rspinola » 18 May 2017 14:47

jpz4 wrote:- period texts often use Btl. or Batl. and Abt. or Abtl. 'Bn ' is indeed a US abbreviation
- 5./Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3 means 5th batterie of Fallsch.Flak-Abteilung 3. The Abteilung part means it is not part of a regiment. If it had been part of a regiment I would have written 5./Fallsch.Flak-Rgt.3, but there was no regiment, just a battalion with five batteries. You always give the highest level of a unit. If a company/battery is part of a regiment you mention the regiment. If a company/battery is only part of a battalion you give the battalion name: Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3

@ Dunnigan, 'component battalion' is a nice way of putting it. I deliberately left out the 'independent' bit since I feared it would be more confusing with Heerestruppen which were considerably more independent.


-I was just confused about "5./Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3" because in your other post you said something like 3 was for Division.

==============
Summary
==============

Abbeviations
-"Kp." = Kompanie (Company);
-"Btl.", "Batl." = Battalion OR "Abt.", "Abtl." = Abteilung;
-"Rgt." = Regiment;
-"Div." = Division;
-Companies and Divisions use "1.", "2.", "3." etc;
-Regiments use "1", "2", "3" etc;
-Battalions use "I.","II.","III." OR "1", "2", "3" etc depending if Battalion is highest level of unit;
-Fallschirmjäger = "Fj.", "Fsch.Jg.", "Fasch.Jg.", "Fallsch." are just a few.

Examples
-"1./FJR.1" "1./Fj.Rgt.1" = (1st Company, {1st Battalion}, Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 1)
-"II./FJR.2" or "II./Fj.Rgt.2" = (2nd Battalion, Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 2)
-"3.FJD" or "3.Fj.Div." = (3rd Fallschirmjäger-Division)
-"5./Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3" = (5th Batterie, Fallschirmjäger-Flak-Abteilung 3)
- "1./FJ.Btl.1" = (1st Company, Fallschirmjäger-Battalion 1)

~Credit: jpz4 -https://forum.axishistory.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=18022~


Again, Thanks for all your help
Last edited by rspinola on 18 May 2017 18:50, edited 24 times in total.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby jpz4 » 18 May 2017 16:19

Your abbreviations are correct, except for these:
- Kp. = Kompanie = company
- "1.", "2.", etc are only used by companies/batteries and divisions. For regiments and battalions, it will never be "1.", "2." Why? Because the dot (.) makes it mean "first", "second", not "one" or "two". It should be Btl.2 or Abt.2, Rgt.2

Your examples should be:
-"1./FJR.1" "1./Fj.Rgt.1" = (1st Company, {1st Battalion}, Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 1)
-"II./FJR.2" or "II./Fj.Rgt.2" = (2nd Battalion, Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 2)
-"3.FJD" or "3.Fj.Div." = (3rd Fallschirmjäger-Division)
-"5./Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3" = (5th Batterie, Fallschirmjäger-Flak-Abteilung 3)
- "1./FJ.Btl.1" = (1st Company, Fallschirmjäger-Battalion 1) Theoretically correct, but that battalion did not exist. You can find exisiting examples here: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... derung.htm

In my examples the 3 indicates the division, because those units are all part of that division. There is no Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3 outside the 3.Fallsch.Jg.Div. Scroll down here: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... 3FJD-R.htm
You will see only the regiments use different numbers.
Here's an example from an infantry division: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /206ID.htm

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby rspinola » 18 May 2017 16:52

jpz4 wrote:Your abbreviations are correct, except for these:
- Kp. = Kompanie = company
- "1.", "2.", etc are only used by companies/batteries and divisions. For regiments and battalions, it will never be "1.", "2." Why? Because the dot (.) makes it mean "first", "second", not "one" or "two". It should be Btl.2 or Abt.2, Rgt.2

Your examples should be:
-"1./FJR.1" "1./Fj.Rgt.1" = (1st Company, {1st Battalion}, Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 1)
-"II./FJR.2" or "II./Fj.Rgt.2" = (2nd Battalion, Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 2)
-"3.FJD" or "3.Fj.Div." = (3rd Fallschirmjäger-Division)
-"5./Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3" = (5th Batterie, Fallschirmjäger-Flak-Abteilung 3)
- "1./FJ.Btl.1" = (1st Company, Fallschirmjäger-Battalion 1) Theoretically correct, but that battalion did not exist. You can find exisiting examples here: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... derung.htm

In my examples the 3 indicates the division, because those units are all part of that division. There is no Fallsch.Flak-Abt.3 outside the 3.Fallsch.Jg.Div. Scroll down here: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... 3FJD-R.htm
You will see only the regiments use different numbers.
Here's an example from an infantry division: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /206ID.htm


Yea i understand and i fixed it all. Make sure it's right so if anyone reads this, easy way to explain it.

Again, thanks for all the help.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby jpz4 » 18 May 2017 18:31

Final correction:
it is not ".1" or ".2"
it is just "1" or "2". The dot (.) comes from the abbreviation. So it is Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 6, which is the same as Fj.Rgt.6
It is a combination of "Fj." and "Rgt." and "6"

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby rspinola » 18 May 2017 18:51

jpz4 wrote:Final correction:
it is not ".1" or ".2"
it is just "1" or "2". The dot (.) comes from the abbreviation. So it is Fallschirmjäger-Regiment 6, which is the same as Fj.Rgt.6
It is a combination of "Fj." and "Rgt." and "6"


Alright, i think its good now. BTW can i PM you about Luftwaffe Wings and Infantry Divisions so this doesn't go to off topic.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby jpz4 » 18 May 2017 22:09

Luftwaffe Wings no, because I do not study those. Infantry units are no problem.

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Re: Fallschirmjäger Unit Abbreviation

Postby markh » 17 Jul 2017 21:22

Hallo everyone, I have been reading this topic with interest, but I would just like to get some confirmation to a question. My father, who was in the Fallschirmjäger, still kept his Besitzzeugnis {Ownership Certificate} Verwundetenabzeichen in schwarz {wounded badge in black} which gives his unit written as "8./ Fsch.Jäg.Rgt.2" Am I to understand that this translates as "8th Kompanie {II.Bataillon} Fallschirmjäger Regiment 2" ?

You may ask "why do I not ask my father?", but my father sadly passed away in 2010, and before then, it never occurred to me to write details down, why would it? You always think that your father will always be there, to spend time with, and talk with.

I have been trying to find details on the internet about this unit, but I have had very little success. Am I looking for the correct unit, 8th Kompanie, Fallschirmjäger Regiment 2? If anyone has any suggestions on how to do some research, could you please let me know? I look forward to reading any replies.

Many thanks

Mark


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