12. SS, SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 25, 17th June 1944

[stoveb]

Hi chaps,

As part of my research into the 9th(Pi)/SS Pz Rgt 1, I have found that a former member of the unit ended up being in the 16. Kp/SS.Pz. Gren.Rgt. 25 and was killed on 17th June 1944. Although I have a vast amount of LSSAH related material I don’t have anything specific to 12th SS if anyone could please let me know what was happening on this day near Caen, and if the 16th Kp is mentioned anywhere.

Thanks
Steve

[eindhoven]

From the Kriegstagebuch of SS-Panzer Grenadier Regiment 25, no mention of 16 Kompanie

KTB SS-pz.Gren.Rgt.25 - 17.6.44
HQ Abbey Ardenne
Patrols conducted yielded the following results:
9./25: elements advanced 1,000 m northeast of the company HQ. 3 enemy antitank guns were firing in the direction on the fighting positions in front of 4. Zug of the 9.Kompanie.
The patrol observed that the British were training civilians, both women and men, in rifle and sub-machine gun fire and then shooting at targets.
Around 02:00, an enemy patrol was repulsed.
2 prisoners, 5 rifles, 3 machine guns,
1 rocket gun, 1 mine detector, 6
bags of explosives were brought back.
Patrol of the 10. and 11. Kompanie no encounters
with the enemy.
10:10: According to II./25.10 enemy gliders
landed southeast of 80. The gliders
were immediately fought by the
Ill./A.R.12.
During the morning, no aircraft activity
enemies or artillery.
13:30: Message from the SS-Flak-Abt.12: ,, 5 enemy tanks
observed north of Gruchy going back and forth. "
4:00 pm: Harassing artillery fire
heavy caliber on the I./25.
18:10: Harassing artillery fire on the HQ
of the Rgt. , Abbey Ardenne.
8:45 pm: The positions of the SS-Flak-Abt.12 were
attacked several times at low altitude by
Jabos.
9:05 pm: Small artillery harassing fire
on the Rgt's HQ. and on the observation post of
the III./A.R. 12, church of Ardenne.
The following operations have been planned for
the night: I./25: none, II./25: none, III./25: 9./25:
reconnaissance along the Buron Valley - Vieux-Cairon.
10./25: reconnaissance 200 m west of Les Buissons
along road and hedgeline of Le Buissons.
11./25: liaison patrol between the 10./25 and
the neighbor on the right, In the evening, weak shots
harassing artillery fire.
Losses
Killed: 2 men
Injured: 2 NCOs, 10 men
Missing
1 man
Weather: cloudy, rainy.
State of health: good

(Source, 'Sur Le Front De Normandie, Volume II:6/6-7/7/44 Invasionsfront', Autor Stephan Cazenave, Maranes Editions)

[stoveb]

Hi, thanks so much for that, a very comprehensive answer!

I suspect that the 16th (Pionier) would have been near the Stab as it was a Regimental unit, it seems likely that he was caught up in the artillery fire.

Is there a source of maps for this period where the Kompanie might have been placed prior to the 17th June?

Cheers
Steve

[eindhoven]

Hi Steve,

Are you sure he was in 25 Regt? and not 26 Regt? Soldbuch entry perhaps confirms?

Given my sources are French, German, and English the first two require translation prior to posting here in English.

Established in January 1944

16. (Pio.) / SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26, map available 16.6.44
16. (Pio.) / SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 25

("Chronik der Pioniereinheiten der 12. SS-Panzer-Division" Hitlerjugend ""by Kurt Imhoff, Selbstverlag 1966, u. wieder mal von Pionierkameradschaft Dresden, 1990.)

[seaburn]

Hi Stoveb

I have a record of a POW from the 16th Kp of the 25th Reg who was captured in Caen in July 1944. He was recorded discussing how they sorted out hidden mines on the EF - one method discussed is mentioned in Meyer's Grenadiers - the other is not but by the nature of the war there, is highly likely.
Won't put the doc up here as I need it myself for my own project but will send it you via the normal channels of needed. Will also check Hubert Meyer's div records to see if I can see anything for that day.

[seaburn]

Doesn't give a specific date or location but it may help.

IMG_7884-croptest.jpg (88.58 KiB) Viewed 4012 times

IMG_7883-crop.jpg (98.88 KiB) Viewed 4012 times

Source - Hubert Meyer's 12th SS divisional history - Stackpole version - pages 289/290

[eindhoven]

Hubert Meyer can be aggravating at times either because of poor translation or simply his tendency for gaps despite his obvious access to primary source material.

Already in Feb 1944 we know from the Pionierkameradschaft itself which was taken from their KTB,

"16th (Pionier) /SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26 commanded by the SS-Ostuf. Trompke is subordinated to SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26.
SS-Mann Jonny Wrieden commits suicide on the night of February 3 to 4, around 0:15 while on guard duty at the Ausbildungskompanie.
16./SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt.25 is subordinated to SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 25 on February 7th and SS-Ustuf. Karl Werner, as it's commander , is officially transferred to the regiment as of the 10th.
On February 10th, the Pionier-Zug of III. (Gp.) / SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26 (lead by SS-Oscha. RFA. Buse) was subordinated to SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26"

In other words 16 Kompanie was formed January, officially staffed in February, and its assets split out to support both 25 and 26 Pz.Gren.Rgt. going into the Normandy battle . Hence two very specific unit designator's in the KTB. NOT just 16 Kompanie. They are:

16. (Pio.) / SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt.26, commanded by SS-Ostuf. Herbert Trompke
16. (Pio.) / SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt.25, commanded by SS-Ustuf. d.R. Karl Werner

Throughout the KTB of their wartime daily you see the above two units referenced widely so when Hubert Meyer says 16. Kompanie was pulled from the line and placed between Rgt. 25 and <Rgt. 26 it makes no sense. Both grenadier regiments already had pioneer elements assigned to them from 16. Kompanie and were essentially covering each others flanks already, not operating as a single unit. They also did not re-consolidate into one Kompanie and sit between each regiment thereby leaving those grenadier regiments without any proper pioneer support.

Case in point is that 16 of June Panzer-Pionier-Bataillon 12 was assigned to Sector 2 and two zug from 16./26 assigned to Sector 3. This is Mohnke's sector and we have a surviving order from Mohnke directing sector coverage. They are referenced throughout the June battles as an organic element to SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26. Not seperate. The same goes for SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 25. Highlighted below.

(Sources, 'Sur Le Front De Normandie, Volume II:6/6-7/7/44 Invasionsfront', Autor Stephan Cazenave, Maranes Editions, pg 274-278
"Chronik der Pioniereinheiten der 12.SS-Panzer-Division" Hitlerjugend ""by Kurt Imhoff, Selbstverlag 1966, u. wieder mal von Pionierkameradschaft Dresden, 1990)

[stoveb]

Hi guys,

Thanks so much for your responses and detailed information, I really appreciate it.

The man was SS-Unterscharführer Ferdinand Bernhard, 03.04.1920, Gladbach, who was an original member of the 3rd Pi Kp/SS-Pi.Btl. 1 'LSSAH' from August 1940. He was wounded by artillery shrapnel on the right foot while making the assault on Vevi, Greece, 12th April 1941, but returned to the Kompanie, receiving the EK II in November 1941 as a SS-Sturmmann. He was transferred to the HJ Division probably in May 1943 and was sent to the new 12th SS Pionier Btl Stab, where he was promoted to SS-Unterscharführer in September 1943. In October 1943 he was sent to the 16th Kp/SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 25 as an instructor, but was transferred there fully in January 1944.

Thanks again for your help.
Cheers
Steve

[Michael Kenny]

On June 17 2 Pz IV from 6 & 8kp SS Pz Rgt 12 were lost trying to take Park de Boislonde, Szamveber has them supporting SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. 26. I had an unidentified photo of a Pz IV wreck for years and only recently made the match to '645' which was one of the losses that day.

Pz IV 645 wreck k ,,..LL (1).jpg (168.04 KiB) Viewed 3538 times

[steve248]

This comes from an interrogation report, following evacuation to Britain after capture: