Organization of a 1944 Panzeraufklärung-Abteilung

[Blanusa]

Hello,

There were two authorized types for Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 44. One with the Panzer-Division 44 and the other with the Panzer-Grenadier-Division 44. I have attached two images to give a basic illustration of the differences. Apart from these two authorized types, there would likely have been deviations with individual battalion, due to a variety of reasons.
It is my understanding, maybe erroneously so, that some units did not have the time, opportunity or equipment to reorganize.

Apologies for the low quality images. The documents concerning the organization of the Panzer-Division 44 and the Panzer-Grenadier-Division 44, dated 3 August and 20 August 1944 respectively, I found on NARA T78 R398.


Best regards
Blanusa

[akdavis]

Sadly a generalised question will get a generalised answer and also produce answers from people who look at a single unit on a specific date and think that gives a complete answer. December 1944 for hardly governs the whole year and a single division doesn't govern all the others during that year.

Do you have any evidence of a PAA changing to 1114 ?

You asked for a specific example and received one of several. Never said it was the rule or should be generalized to all divisions. Here is the 11. Pz.A.A. kriegsgliederung from June 1, 1944 from T78 R718:

Many divisions continued to be authorized 2x light SPW companies rather than 1x light and 2x medium even after conversion to the Panzer Division 44 org, as well as many other variations. However a number of divisions were authorized the 1x medium company from summer 44 on. Some are noted in the Fire Brigades information above, but there are additional divisions, e.g. 9. Panzer and 116. Panzer, possibly 23. Panzer (actually ended up with a mix of le.SPW and m.SPW in both companies by the end of '44).

[Blanusa]

Hello,

Attached is the detailed overview of a Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 44 as per the organization of a Panzer-Division 44, from the document I mentioned earlier, dated 3 August 1944. While I have not seen a proposal or draft for the Panzer-Division 44, I can't say what the evolution was, but this is the end product. However, the documents I referenced, details of which I have attached, shows a addendum with the +. It reads zunächst nur als Vorausgabe erschienen, and I take this to indicate that this organization was not to be strictly adhered to and that individual battalions may be ordered to organize differently. Possibly it was intentionally left loosely defined in this way, taking in to consideration production capacities and possibility to deliver the strictly required vehicles?


Best regards
Blanusa

[Der Rittmeister]

Thanks for the info, a bit late reply so sorry for that. A further question - what equipment was usually used to replace the halftracks in the heavy weapons company if halftracks was not available? Take for example the pioneers or anti-tank units? Trucks? They are heavier and have a much worse mobility than halftracks off-course. Would say the 4th Company be left out of the battle order and wait to receive sufficient equipment?

Best regards!

[Blanusa]

Hello,

It is hard to replace the halftrack. I would be inclined to agree with your last question and venture a guess that the unit was either left out or the organisation would be changed to use a KStN with VW instead. For the heavy company I would guess vehicle towed heavy weapons, as opposed to SPW-mounted.


Best regards
Blanusa

[Alanmccoubrey]

Thanks for the info, a bit late reply so sorry for that. A further question - what equipment was usually used to replace the halftracks in the heavy weapons company if halftracks was not available? Take for example the pioneers or anti-tank units? Trucks? They are heavier and have a much worse mobility than halftracks off-course. Would say the 4th Company be left out of the battle order and wait to receive sufficient equipment?

Best regards!

Any truck or Maultier could be used as replacement towing vehicles and if SdKfz 251 were not available then trucks might well be used in their stead for the Pioniere or to carry mortars etc.

[Der Rittmeister]

Thanks for the info, a bit late reply so sorry for that. A further question - what equipment was usually used to replace the halftracks in the heavy weapons company if halftracks was not available? Take for example the pioneers or anti-tank units? Trucks? They are heavier and have a much worse mobility than halftracks off-course. Would say the 4th Company be left out of the battle order and wait to receive sufficient equipment?

Best regards!

Any truck or Maultier could be used as replacement towing vehicles and if SdKfz 251 were not available then trucks might well be used in their stead for the Pioniere or to carry mortars etc.

I see, thanks.

Cheers

[Blanusa]

Hello,

Any truck or Maultier could be used as replacement towing vehicles and if SdKfz 251 were not available then trucks might well be used in their stead for the Pioniere or to carry mortars etc.

Unfortunately, it is not that simple. If the Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung was intended to be equipped with armoured halftracks, then these could not simply be replaced by any truck or Maultier. There are special purpose armoured halftracks, like the Sd.Kfz.250/9, Sd.Kfz.250/10 or Sd.Kfz.251/9, that could not be replaced that simply. Just replacing the armoured halftracks with trucks in a single company changes the whole operational use of the battalion completely. For instance, you would not venture to charge an attack with trucks, while you might do that with armoured halftracks.

One good example that I have stumbled upon is the 3./Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 16. The company was intended to be filled with replacements and equipped with armoured halftracks, upon which it was to be attached to Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 115. It had been waiting for at least two months (that is the period I followed them, but certainly they waited longer) and finally by 15 March 1945 it was reported to have attained 100% of its personnel strength, however, still without any vehicles. This whole time it had been attached to the replacement army and still continued to be after this date. They were intended to be equipped and used in a specific way, therefore a simple change to just trucks was not an option. That would demand the retraining of the men or replacing with only regular infantry to be motorized.


Best regards
Blanusa

[Der Rittmeister]

Hello,

Any truck or Maultier could be used as replacement towing vehicles and if SdKfz 251 were not available then trucks might well be used in their stead for the Pioniere or to carry mortars etc.

Unfortunately, it is not that simple. If the Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung was intended to be equipped with armoured halftracks, then these could not simply be replaced by any truck or Maultier. There are special purpose armoured halftracks, like the Sd.Kfz.250/9, Sd.Kfz.250/10 or Sd.Kfz.251/9, that could not be replaced that simply. Just replacing the armoured halftracks with trucks in a single company changes the whole operational use of the battalion completely. For instance, you would not venture to charge an attack with trucks, while you might do that with armoured halftracks.

One good example that I have stumbled upon is the 3./Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 16. The company was intended to be filled with replacements and equipped with armoured halftracks, upon which it was to be attached to Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung 115. It had been waiting for at least two months (that is the period I followed them, but certainly they waited longer) and finally by 15 March 1945 it was reported to have attained 100% of its personnel strength, however, still without any vehicles. This whole time it had been attached to the replacement army and still continued to be after this date. They were intended to be equipped and used in a specific way, therefore a simple change to just trucks was not an option. That would demand the retraining of the men or replacing with only regular infantry to be motorized.


Best regards
Blanusa

So how did the 3rd Company eventually solve its problems? Any similiar cases? Using trucks must have been possible if the emergency and need was grave enough, no? I imagen at least towards the end of the war, it was better to send them back in trucks fighting as infantry instead? Especially by March 1945 like 3rd Company, PAA 16.

Cheers

[Alanmccoubrey]

Of course it is as simple as that, if you don't have an SdKfz 251/4 to tow your Pak 40 then you use what you can get, you certainly don't leave the gun behind. You are being extremely naive if you think otherwise. Was it necessary to retrain the men if a "rifle" company was equipped with the VW or Schwimmwagen instead of the SdKfz 250 ? Plainly it wasn't because there was a version of the KStN for just such an eventuality. You seem to think that the 250 and 251 were something more than armoured taxis, they certainly were not fighting vehicles. The infantry in a PAA were there to fight through the enemy's lines and create a hole for the armoured cars and as such were perfectly capable of doing that when dismounted from a truck or an SdKfz 250
Nor do you seem to know what an SdKfz 250/9 was because to bring it into this discussion is silly, it was an armoured car and used as such while your question is about towing vehicles and transport for Pioniere. The sdKfz 251/9 Stummel is not relevant to your question either, the unit either had them or it didn't, if it didn't then they would have to make do with just their pair of towed 75mm Infantry Guns, whatever tow they had.

According to the Concord book on 4PD that division used Maultiere as the transport for one of the companies in its PAA.

Using an example from 1945 is hardly supportive of your argument, the Heer was falling apart by then.

[Blanusa]

Hello,

Please look at the subject of this thread. With all due respect, the subject is the 1944 type Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung. I would say it is most relevant for 1945, considering that not many units were organized with the 1945 types. You seem to have vague or very distorted knowledge of how the German military organisation was applied in practice.

Interestingly it is you who has it backwards. In an armoured halftrack reconnaissance battalion, the infantry component was there to temporarily occupy and hold captured positions until the division’s infantry regiments could catch up and properly occupy the positions. Not the other way around, as you would have it, with the infantry punching a hole in the lines. I strongly urge you to read up on the use of fast battalions and the different types of reconnaissance battalions and how they were to be used in the field in practice.
Pro tip, they were not a regular infantry battalion or armoured infantry battalion and using them as such or splitting them up was considered misuse. They were a unit requiring specialists and just changing one thing, such as using towed vehicles, completely changes the operational use and requires adequate and proper training. Otherwise, you might as well be suggesting that using a tank crew as infantry is strongly advisable just because there are no tanks. Or perhaps that one can simply take an infantryman and putting him in a tank, automatically making him a tank crew. No retraining required because a soldier is a soldier and knows all.

Please show me an example of where such impromptu changes were made, that a unit lacking the required armoured halftracks instead just simply used trucks to transport their infantry or tow their anti-tank guns. And maybe take a closer look at 4.PD, because I suspect that it was the organisation after which they were authorized to organize. Nothing happened at random in the German army.



Best regards
Blanusa

[Blanusa]

Hello,

So how did the 3rd Company eventually solve its problems? Any similiar cases? Using trucks must have been possible if the emergency and need was grave enough, no? I imagen at least towards the end of the war, it was better to send them back in trucks fighting as infantry instead? Especially by March 1945 like 3rd Company, PAA 16.

Cheers

I really do not know how they solved it. See, the German army fought to the end, there was at no point any decision taken to just throw in everything that you had at the enemy without regard for training or life. The men were specialist, requiring specialist training in armoured reconnaissance warfare. Even if there were no armoured vehicles available, you did not send the specialist in as infantry. Production of armoured vehicles could be carried on and a vehicle be produced in a relatively short time, several hundred a month. Training a specialist requires weeks if not months, considering that the candidate passed the course or required longer time and the capacity per course was limited.
Just look at the Luftwaffe. Why were the pilots not used as infantry when there was no fuel or planes?


Best regards
Blanusa

[Harro]

I suppose mention of the 251/9 was a simple typo as "Blanusa" no doubt meant the 251/7 assault engineer halftrack which carried an assault bridging ramp. In late 1944, the Pionierzug of the SS-PzAA1 consisted of three squads with a total of seven Sd.Kfz. 251/7, each with a crew of five to six men. Equipping them with trucks would indeed lower their value, unless they were issued some sort of towed bridging ramp (did such a thing exist?) but ofcourse not useless as they still had their specialist training. Up unto May 1944 the Pioniere of the SS-PzAA1 all moved around in trucks (all available 251/7's in the LAH were with 14./SS-PzGrRgt 2)

[Blanusa]

Hello,

I'm sorry Harro, with all due respect, I meant what I wrote. If you look at the Pz.Aufkl.Abt. for a 1944 Pz.Div. organisation that I posted earlier, you will see that those vehicles were required.
The 251/9 was used in a role similar to the Sturmgeschütz, but not exactly like such. We are talking about mechanised and very mobile warfare.
The recon elements probed the enemy lines for weak spots, then the battalion attacked that weak spot, with the infantry and anti-tank guns temorarily occupying and holding that position. The halftracks carried adequate protection against small arms fire, with mounted MG serving as excellent heavy infantry support. The 2cm gun of the 250/9 was superb against enemy infantry, anti-tank guns and soft-skin vehicles, but could also take on fixed positions and smaller tanks with good effect. The 251/9 was more than capable of fighting enemy tanks and fixed positions. Take these away and replace them with trucks and cars and the whole operational use of the battalion changes, with completely different tactics having to be implemented and you could not make the Quick decision of charging a lightly held enemy position. For instance, the VW equipped reconnaissance battalions had to dismount, plan and prepare for an assault. It takes considerably more time setting up an assault this way, than being able to do it on the move.
The 251/7 was not meant to lay bridges while being fired upon, instead, they were to keep up and afford the battalion to bridge smaller obstacles in the terrain. Otherwise they might get stuck at a critical time and lose valuable time finding alternative routes. Besides that, the engineer platoon usually carried flamethrowers and scoped rifles or "snipers" if you will.

I'm not at home at the moment. Not that it has with the 1944 organisation to do, but I will post an illustrative report written by Rudolf Saalbach of SS-Pz.Aufkl.Abt.11, in which he brings up the misuse of his battalion during the critical fighting in January 1944. The result of which was otherwise preventable loss of men and vehicles, as well as missed opportunities in halting the enemy advance.


Best regards
Blanusa

[Harro]

Aha, I thought part of the discussion was about vehicles for transporting Pioniere. Shows that I should not interfere