High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 03 Aug 2022 09:31

Thanks Oliver, always valuable with your information.

I have two other panzeraces:
Oberleutnant Arno Taulien - PzRgt 6 - +20 kills
During the Fourth Battle of Kharkov destroyed more than 20 T-34 enemy tanks on the 08.08.1943 over the course of an hours-long tank battle with his PZ.IV.
(I remember reading, that his panzergunner was Johann Egggers - 46 panzerkills)

Leutnant Ludwig Bauer - PzRgt 33 - 46 kills
Ludwig Bauer a man credited with 46 tank kills He fought in Barbarossa. Moscow. Kursk. Normandy. Falaise Gap. Bulge. Defence of the Reich.
(I don't know how reliable it is)

Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 03 Aug 2022 23:17

Hello Alcius,

well, ...

TAULIEN:
according to the Pz.Rgt. 6 chronicle it was the success of his 7. Kp., such as this:
07.08.1943 = shot 1 assault gun and 2 tanks plus 3 trucks with 5 own Panzers
08.08.1943 = shot 9 tanks with his company
09.08.1943 = shot 18 of 40 russian tanks with his company (5 Panzer IV) plus 3 russian tanks damaged with three own tanks damaged (this was his KC action)

But yes, Eggers was his gunner during those days, so the personal score of Oblt. Taulien should be not the lowest one ...

You know that Arno Taulien was wounded at least 11 (eleven) times during the war?

BAUER:
ugh, I really don't know, I have no defentive scores or claims for him.

He wrote a book about his experiences, but apart from just a few stories he doesn't claim tank kills, gives no numbers, so one just can imagine that he MUST have scored some. He was recommended for the KC for actions on 27.1.1945 at Lascheid (rejected) AND was recommended again for the KC for an other action at the end of February 1945, near Köln, but that's all I knew. No hard facts, unfortunately ...

But, well, 46 tank kills is possible of course. Where have you read that?

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 04 Aug 2022 10:19

Hello Oliver


Thanks usually for your valuable information.

Thanks, I didn't know about Taulien's eleven injuries
I also found this:
Armored Bears- The German 3rd Panzer Division in World War II · Volume 2
taulien.png
For Bauer just search the Internet for "46 tank kills" and you can find these sites where I read it.
Years ago I found a Russian site, where in an interview with Bauer, he claimed to have destroyed 30 to 50 tanks.
If I find it, I'll send you the Links

Alcius
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alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 04 Aug 2022 11:31

I continue with Schwere Panzerabteilung aces

Oberfeldwebel Siegfried Krebs - tiger 112/724 -SPzabt 501 - 17 kills
Leutnant Friedrich-Carl Oberbracht - SPzabt 501 -+30 kills
Feldwebel Johann Muller - SPzabt 502 - 60 kills
Oberfeldwebel Hans Febdesack - SPzabt 503 - 103 kills
Feldwebel ?? Schimock - SPzabt 503 - +70 kills
(I have no other information)

Oberfähnrich Oskar Rohrig - SPzabt 504 - 5 kills
I don't know how many victories he got in the Pz.Abt. 18, but his Gunner Unteroffizier Werner Siegemund was awarded the German Cross in Gold (of which I have no trace) for 84 kills.

Fahnenjunker Rolf gebhardt - Spzabt 507 - +47 kills
In The Combat History of schwere Panzer-Abteilung 507 there is the recommendation for the GCG:
It was with great pleasure that I discovered that you knocked out 20 enemy tanks in the difficult fighting around Tarnopol and Brody.
iin the new Tiger battalion 507 there is the recommendation for the KC:
who since April 1944 as destroyed 27 enemy tanks and 35 guns.
20 + 27 - 47 kills ?

Fahnenjunker Heinrich Diez - SPzabt 507 - 13 kills

Oberfeldwebel Fritz Sander - KGR Posen - 36 kills
The last Tiger of the Festung Posen destroyed 17 enemy tanks in 1 month.
One was destroyed by Sander, who was later wounded.
The other 16 were destroyed by his gunner, Obergefreiter Richard Siegert, who was promoted to commander.
Oberfeldwebel Sander, an Austrian, since 1941, fights on the Eastern Front and destroyed 35 Russian tanks, including 10 on PZ.IV at Citadel
if anyone has other information, department, decorations, etc.


Thanks, Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 04 Aug 2022 18:21

alcius wrote:
04 Aug 2022 10:19
I also found this:
Armored Bears- The German 3rd Panzer Division in World War II · Volume 2
Hello Alcius,

hm, there are several claims like that, to be found on the net, but ..., in that case I would like to trust the regimental history which clearly broke down the records for each day for 7. Kompanie (5 Panzer IV), and indeed Eggers during that time still was a Richtschütze. One or two weeks later he served as a tank commander, right, and he had a score of 46 per 21.8.1944, so wasn't that successful as a CO than as a gunner.

The newsletter "Die Panzertruppe" claims that he had a score as a gunner of 42 tanks and a lot of guns and Pak.

Some possibilities:
1) the score for 7. Kompanie from 7.8. to 9.8.43 was 30 tanks and assault guns of which Taulien/Eggers could have scored +20 alone, maybe ...
2) during the main day of battle, 9.8.43, the score was 18 tanks plus 3 tanks damaged = 21 tanks which could read as "more than 20 tanks". But that, of course, was the company's score.

Not that easy without original documents ...

:-)

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 04 Aug 2022 18:22

alcius wrote:
04 Aug 2022 10:19
... for Bauer just search the Internet for "46 tank kills" and you can find these sites where I read it. ...
Hi Alcius,

right, and every hit on the net has the same wording, so one wrote the same as his forrunner (copy and paste) ...

But o.k., this kill claim of course is possible with Bauer's service record in mind. No question. Again, one needs to see the original recommendations, but ...

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 04 Aug 2022 18:30

alcius wrote:
04 Aug 2022 11:31
Feldwebel ?? Schimock - SPzabt 503 - +70 kills
(I have no other information)
Hi Alcius,

I'm pretty sure that this is Fw. Herbert Schönrock, a tank commander of 3./s.Pz.Abt. 503. He got his EK2 in January 1943 as a Uffz. with 2./s.Pz.Abt. 502 (which became 3./503 shortly later), so he served 1 1/2 years with this highly successful Abteilung.

I know this newspaper clipping (from "Leipziger Neueste Nachrichten, 23.7.1944), but you may know that in more than one case the newspaper doesn't give the names of the soldiers properly.

Schimock should be Schönrock, just try to spell it in German :-)

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 04 Aug 2022 18:37

alcius wrote:
04 Aug 2022 11:31
Oberfähnrich Oskar Rohrig - SPzabt 504 - 5 kills
I don't know how many victories he got in the Pz.Abt. 18, but his Gunner Unteroffizier Werner Siegemund was awarded the German Cross in Gold (of which I have no trace) for 84 kills.
Hi Alcius,

o.k., first:
Oskar Röhrig got his EK1 as a Feldwebel as early as November 1941 with 11./Pz.Rgt. 18, which changed to 2./Pz.Abt. 18 (he got the DKiG as a Zugführer there in Sept. 1943). His company during the battles around Orel was highly successful with 113 tanks claimed by 2./Pz.Abt. 18.

So, this success together with the DKiG for him let me think that he must have had some tank kills on his barrel.

Than, Werner Siegemund, wow.
I met Werner just a few years before he died, twice. It wasn't that easy to communicate as he was a very old man already. He died aged 103!!!

So, I'm highly interested which additional information you have on him, his score? And ..., do you know at which time Siegemund was Röhrig's gunner?

The DKiG of course was a late one which could have been awarded by the Heeresgruppe and so not within the usual records, a few days before armistice ...

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 04 Aug 2022 19:11

alcius wrote:
04 Aug 2022 11:31
Fahnenjunker Rolf gebhardt - Spzabt 507 - +47 kills
In The Combat History of schwere Panzer-Abteilung 507 there is the recommendation for the GCG:
It was with great pleasure that I discovered that you knocked out 20 enemy tanks in the difficult fighting around Tarnopol and Brody.
iin the new Tiger battalion 507 there is the recommendation for the KC:
who since April 1944 as destroyed 27 enemy tanks and 35 guns.
20 + 27 - 47 kills ?
Hi Alcius,

I'm not sure, like you I have a question mark.

Letter from 8.5.1944 says: 20 Tanks around Tarnopol and Brody up to the end of April 1944.
Ritterkreuz: 27 tanks ... from April to July 1944.

So ... ?

He got his DKiG on 28.4.1944, but the recommendation must have been from January, February latest. No defenite clue here, sadly ...

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 04 Aug 2022 19:13

alcius wrote:
04 Aug 2022 11:31
Oberfeldwebel Fritz Sander - KGR Posen - 36 kills
Hello Alcius,

I have no additional information on that man, who is claimed to have been with a Panzerjäger unit before manning the Posen Tiger ...

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 05 Aug 2022 09:17

Hello Oliver

Thanks as usual for your additional information.
Unfortunately I have seen that in the newspapers the names are often wrong, more than once I have had to interpret them.

As for Siegemund, I found the information in this Links:
Schlacht um Kursk 1943
https://www.yumpu.com/de/document/view/ ... 3-vorschau

Alcius

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 05 Aug 2022 13:54

Hello Oliver

I checked Schimock, I think you're right.
I had thought of Schmidt, Schmid, Schmock, Smok and others, but not Schonrock, also mentioned in some books.

I have recently found, perhaps, two panzeraces of Tiger in Italy:
Leutnant Joachim Engelhardt - 1 / Spzabt 508 15 kills (9 + 6)
Leutnant Meier (possibly Mayr) - Spzabt 504 or 508 - 8kills

General-Anzeiger 56 (06/29/1944) Juni
https://zeitpunkt.nrw/ulbbn/periodical/zoom/3935199?
And
General-Anzeiger für das rheinisch-westfälische Industriegebiet und das westfälsiche Münsterland 63 (15/07/1944) 193
https://zeitpunkt.nrw/ulbbn/periodical/zoom/7754592?

Alcius

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 05 Aug 2022 22:11

alcius wrote:
05 Aug 2022 13:54
Leutnant Joachim Engelhardt - 1 / Spzabt 508 15 kills (9 + 6)
Hello Alcius,

his name was Engelhard, without the "t" at the end of his name. The newspaper clipping just connected this 9 tank kills with Leutnant Engelhard, the second newspaper clipping most probably refers to the actions on 22., 23. and 24.6.1944 with some tanks destroyed by Lt. Engelhard's Kampfgruppe. He got the EK 2 on 24.6.44.

The EK 1 was awarded to him on 1.10.1944.

Oliver

Gastolli
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by Gastolli » 05 Aug 2022 22:53

alcius wrote:
05 Aug 2022 13:54
Leutnant Meier (possibly Mayr) - Spzabt 504 or 508 - 8kills
Hi Alcius,
ah, damn ..., we have a

Lt.d.R. Heinrich Mayr, Zugführer 1./s.Pz.Abt. 504, DKiG on 6.8.1944 (fell Dec. 1944)
Lt. Kurt Mayer, Zugführer 1./s.Pz.Abt. 508, DKiG on 15.12.1944

Hm ...

Oliver

alcius
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Re: High Scorers with Panzers and Paks

Post by alcius » 06 Aug 2022 09:55

Thanks, as usual Oliver.

Surely Lieutenant Engelhard had destroyed 1 Sherman on June 24th and others on June 21st, I think the 6 kills are only attributed to him.

I found another Newspaper for Meier, since it is from June and Rohrig is mentioned in it, I think it is Meyr from Spzabt 504
meier.png
Alcius
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