The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by fox3-6 » 23 Nov 2022 06:48

Empiricist wrote:
01 Nov 2022 12:14
Hello Parahist,

Here you have 1944 movie when paratroopers jumped from CG-4As in double-tow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xc_yqsqjws


Was that a cigarette role at 52 second mark? It looks like he gets wrapped in his own parachute... not good 8O
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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by Empiricist » 23 Nov 2022 10:54

Yes, you are right. It looks very bad.

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by Empiricist » 23 Nov 2022 19:07

Postscript

I was a parachutist so I admire those brave US servicemen who worked for that test. The CG-4A was not designed and professionally prepared for dropping the paras with their weapon, field gear, equipment etc. The CG-4A had very small so-called "emergency doors" never designed for jumping. Perhaps that wretch wrapped in his own parachute due to very small doors, his rotation in the air, too much field gear, too loose M1936 Musette Bag... who knows...

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by fox3-6 » 28 Nov 2022 20:08

Empiricist wrote:
23 Nov 2022 19:07
Postscript

I was a parachutist so I admire those brave US servicemen who worked for that test. The CG-4A was not designed and professionally prepared for dropping the paras with their weapon, field gear, equipment etc. The CG-4A had very small so-called "emergency doors" never designed for jumping. Perhaps that wretch wrapped in his own parachute due to very small doors, his rotation in the air, too much field gear, too loose M1936 Musette Bag... who knows...
yes that is what is surprising. Also, i'm surprised these gliders have a static line in them but i guess they do.

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by parahist » 04 Dec 2022 18:09

Good found, fox3-6, thanks! I had not seen that even that I had look that video few times.

They used normal paratroopers T-series parachutes. And yes, they need static line inside of the gliders.

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by ROLAND1369 » 04 Dec 2022 19:06

The CG4 did not have a static line or the attachments for one however it would have been easy to rig a floor mounted cable utilizing the floor mounted tiedowns. These were standard for vehicles and cargo tiedown. The cable is run along the floor held up off the floor by 4 x 4 wooden blocks to allow static line hook up. we used a simular arrangement in the Cargo box of the Ch 54 helio and U 6 beaver fixed wing as well as several other non standard aircraft. In my time as an Army Jumpmaster I have rigged and utilized several such arrangements on various aircraft. The purpose of this experiment appears to to be to increase the number of parachutists which could be dropped on a drop zone. The C 47 had only one jump door and with and interval between jumpers averaging 30 seconds would need a certain length of DZ to safely release its load. The addition of two towed gliders would mean the equivalent of an airplane having 3 doors to use the same length DZ as well as the additional number of parachutist which could be accommodated in the gliders. I suspect with weight restrictions on the gliders it would not be a full load. The efficiency of exiting the emergency door of the glider as well as the safety aspects probably ended this experiment. Additionally the introduction of the C 46 which had both 2 jump doors as well as additional parachutist capacity also rendered this idea unnecessary.

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by Empiricist » 05 Dec 2022 12:49

The CG-4A interior converted for dropping the paras.
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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by OpanaPointer » 05 Dec 2022 15:28

Jumping out of a gooney bird is the epitome of "jumping out of a perfectly good airplane."

Jumping out of a glider is the epitome of "jumping out of an airplane with no working engines."
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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by jwsleser » 05 Dec 2022 15:40

ROLAND1369 wrote:
04 Dec 2022 19:06
The C 47 had only one jump door and with and interval between jumpers averaging 30 seconds would need a certain length of DZ to safely release its load.
I believe you have a typo here. The Italian training standard was 8 jumpers in 4.5 seconds. The German standard was 13 jumpers in 7 seconds. 28 jumpers from an SM.82 at an airspeed of 150 kph using both doors and jumping at 100 m AGL will cover 285 m (311 yds) on the DZ given no other variables (of course there are always other variables :o ). Using one door would double the distance. A 30 second separation between jumpers would mean the 18 parachutists jumping from a C47 with an airspeed of 150 kph would cover 22.5 km.

Another consideration is the crowded sky. Flying in single trail or using a three-plane wedge means one must plan separation to reduce chances of mid-air collisions between jumpers. You can't dump too much into the sky at one time. The aircraft are also dropping the resupply canisters at the same time. The SM.82, in addition to its 28 paracadutisti, is dropping 6-8 canisters. Congestion on the DZ is another concern.

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by jwsleser » 05 Dec 2022 15:45

There is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane. Ask any crew chief. :wink:

A pilot knows how to fly a plane when it is working; a parachutist knows how to get out of one when it is not. :)
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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by ROLAND1369 » 05 Dec 2022 18:46

Standards and reality are two different things. I have dropped troops at 15 second intervals. But when jumping combat equipment and equipment bags, with jumpers hesitating in the door, some falling in the airplane it can go higher. One thing to remember about the Iralians and Germans is that unlike the allies they did not by doctrine jump with long weapons, rifles smg,and mgs. They jumped with at best a pistol and grenades. Their equipment and the majority of their equipment was dropped in parachute containers. The US trooper in particular jumped with rifles, smgs, pistols bazookas static strapped to their bodies with the heavy equipment in leg bags. This complicates the exit procedure. Interesting picture showing that they went to the trouble of rigging an overhead static line cable.

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by jwsleser » 05 Dec 2022 19:44

Thank you the reply.

Yes the standard and reality can be different. 1 second between jumpers was more likely.

By 1941 the Italians were jumping with weapons and other equipment. They understood by late 1940 that pistols and grenades were not enough. There has been discussion on whether some of the FJ units jumped with weapons at Crete.

I can't speak with any authority to US or UK practice in WW2 as I haven't studied it (but have intensely studied the Italian experience), but 15 seconds between jumpers is far too long. That is a 11 km long DZ. This video states 18 men in 10 seconds at the 3:38 mark.



WW2 paratroopers weren't jumping anything like a fully loaded CWIE bag. When I was jumping in the 70s, we were butts to d***s at the door. When jumping out of C123s, you had to move fast around the wheel well to keep the stick moving as it was right next to the jump door.

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by ROLAND1369 » 05 Dec 2022 23:55

Scratch my previous comment on 30 seconds. Must be the medication. Current us doctrine is 1 second interval, from my experience due to the previous problems, seldom achieved. The us was jumping leg bags on some troops from Normandy on. Admititly not as large as the 110 lb WIEC bags of the 60s and 70s.

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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by OpanaPointer » 06 Dec 2022 11:56

jwsleser wrote:
05 Dec 2022 15:45
There is no such thing as a perfectly good airplane. Ask any crew chief. :wink:
I've only had the one negative air/ground interface. The rest were perfectly good. Got my butt where I needed to go. :thumbsup:
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Re: The dropping of parachutist from gliders?

Post by ROLAND1369 » 06 Dec 2022 16:35

I can't say the same thing, among other broken bones I have been dropped as far away a 2 miles from the drop zone into a swamp. It was admittedly a blind drop, but is as from one of the highly sophisticated MC130E blackbirds. The track of the aircraft over the DZ was reversed 180 degrees, however the aircrew failed to reset the computer and thus the green light cam on on the trailing edge not leading edge of the DZ. I have had better luck with trash hauler standard C130s an crews. They actually look outside the airplane.

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