Let's Build SS-Panzer-Brigade "Gross"

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Abel Ravasz
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#16

Post by Abel Ravasz » 09 Nov 2002, 19:14

Hi all,

Martin Mansson wrote
Other soldiers that I'm aware of who served in Gross are:

SS-Unterscharführer Johan Westrin (AA Gross)
SS-Rottenführer John-Erik Eriksson (Einheit Runge - Kompanie Stenglin)
I think that Johan Westrin was an Oberscharführer at the time.
WESTRIN, Johan Theodor Herje
SS-Oberscharführer
Born:-17 September 1916 in Stockholm, Sweden
Fate:-K.I.A. 18 September 1944

History:- He was apparently a career soldier, serving in both the Swedish and Finnish armies between 1936 and 1943. Specifically he served in the Finnish Army during the Winter War of 1939 - 1940, and again from August 1941 until April 1942. He evidently served in Finland as a Sergeant , with the permission of the Swedish Army. It would appear that Westrin went AWOL from his Finnsih unit in 1942. After being apprehended he was jailed and courtmartialed. He was first sentenced to three months imprisonment but this was reduced to an 18 day sentence of only bread and water. After being released he deserted permanently and was "dismissed" from the roster of his Finnish unit.

Westrinthen went back to the Swedish Army, "officially" serving from 18 April 1942 to 13 May 1943. However on the 14th April 1942, Westrin left Sweden for Norway and on 18th April he enlisted in the Waffen-SS in Oslo, stating that he wanted "to live the soldier's life above all else". the Swedish Army listed him as AWOL on 13th May 1943. Westrin was accepted into the Waffen-SS with the rank od SS-Unterscharführer and evidently served first with the 5th SS-Panzer-Division "Wiking" and then in the 11th SS-Panzergrenadier-Division "Nordland".

At some point in time he was sent to an NCO training class in Latvia after which he became an SS-Oberscharführer. He was then assigned to the SS-Panzer Reconnaissance Training and Replacement Detachment stationed in Riga-Strand training Camp, Latvia, where he served with the "stamm" company, which was the cadre formation for the unit. On 17th May 1944, while serving at Riga-Strand, Westrin applied to the SS Race and Resettlement Branch Office in Oslo for permission to marry a Lolo Eckhoff. Soon afterwards, SS-Oberscharführer Westrin's training unit was mobilised as part of the "ad hoc" SS-Panzer-Brigade "Gross". which was sent to the defence of eastern Latvia. Westrin was apparently killed with his whole squad of five men by a landmine on the 18th September 1944 near Saukenai, Lithuania. Other sources state that he also died on the 8 September 1944 and the 5 October 1944.

(Side note:- In 1987, the district court in Sveg in the western part of Sweden declared Johan Westrin officially dead. Westrin had been listed as a MIA (missing-in-action) since autumn 1944. The court somehow manage to locate a former German SS-Unterscharführer who had served with Westrin, testified that Westrin was killed when his car that he was traveling in ran over a landmine during a counter attack against the town of Saukenai, Lithuania, killing all occupants.)
Source: http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/SWEDEN/Waffen-SS.html

Best,

Abel

Reigo
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#17

Post by Reigo » 09 Nov 2002, 19:23

In September, Brigade Gross was detached from Panzer-Division v. Strachwitz and dispatched back to Latvia, to the Dorpat area, to counter another Soviet offensive.
A small correction: Dorpat (in Estonian Tartu) was/is in Estonia.

http://img.infoplease.com/images/mestonia.a.gif


Timo
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#18

Post by Timo » 09 Nov 2002, 19:26

Thanks Reigo,

It should read:
In September, Brigade Gross was detached from Panzer-Division v. Strachwitz and dispatched from the Dorpat area back to Latvia, to counter another Soviet offensive.

Regards,
Timo

Martin Månsson
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#19

Post by Martin Månsson » 09 Nov 2002, 22:22

Martin,

Runge, Walter 14.10.07 Hstuf. KDR Inf.Rgt.II/Pz.Brig. Gross

Should this read Inf.Btln.II/Pz.Brig. Gross ???
Yes Timo you're right.

The development for Einheit Runge was as follows:

27/7 - ?/8 -44 SS-Feldersatz-Bataillon/SS-Paner-Brigade Gross
?? - ?? 1944 SS-Infanterie-Bataillon 2/SS-Panzer-Brigade Gross
After 22/8-1944 SS-Bataillon Runge

OoB for 10/8-1944

Bataillonsstab
Kradmeldestaffel
1. Kompanie
2.Kompanie
3. Kompanie
4. Kompanie
Troß

The Einheit Runge were subordinated following unit/Div/Hgr:

27/7 - 2/8 - 1944 SS-Pz.Brig. Gross/Wehrmachtsoberbefehlhaber Ostland
3/8 - 5/8 - 1944 SS-Pz.Brig.Gross/Pz AOK 3 HGr. Mitte
5/8 - 9/8 - 1944 SS-Pz.Brig. Gross/Gen.Kdo v. Rothkirch/Pz.AOK 3 HGr. Mitte
9/8 - ?/8 - 1944 SS-Pz.Brig. Gross/Stab 52 Sich.Div/XXXIX.Pz-Korps/Pz.AOK 3 HGr. Mitte
22/8 - 1944 Gruppe Sasse (Equal to Stab 52 Sich.Div.) AOK 16/HGr. Nord
23/8 - ?? -1944 Gruppe Sasse (Equal to Stab 52 Sich.Div.) XXXIX Pz.Korps
?? - 4/9-1944 IR 174 - KGr. 81 ID/Gen.Kdo. Kleffel/AOK 16/Hgr. Nord
4/9 - 6/9 - 1944 Gruppe Sasse (Equal to Stab 52 Sich.Div.)/Pz.AOK 3/Hgr. Mitte
6/9 - ?? - 1944 Stab Sich.Rgt.75 / XXXIX Pz.Korps/Pz. AOK 3/HGr. Nord
?/9 - ?/9 - 1944 Stab Sich.Rgt. 75 / 4. Pz.Div. XXXIX Pz.Korps/Pz.AOK3/HGr. Mitte
12/9 - ?/9 - 1944 Stab Sich.Rgt. 75/Pz.Div. Grossdeutschland/XXXIX Pz.Korps/Pz.AOK 3/HGr. Mitte
26/9 - 28/9 - 1944 Stab Sich.Rgt.75 Pz.Div. Grossdeutschland/Armee.Abt. Grasser/HGr. Nord
28/9 - 4/10 - 1944 4.SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Brig. Nederland/III.(Germ.)SS-Pz.Korps/Armee-Abt. Grasser/HGr. Nord
4/10 - 6/10 - 1944 11 SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Div. Nordland/III.(Germ.) SS-Pz.Korps/ Armee-Abt. Grasser/HGr. Nord
23/10 - 1944 z.Vfg. (Disposal to) III./(Germ.)SS-Pz.Korps/AOK 18/HGr. Nord
1/11 - ??/11 - 1944 SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Rgt.49/SS-Freiw.Pz.Gren.Brig. Nederland/bsw 11. SS-Freiw-SS-Pz.Gren.Div. Nordland/III/(Germ.)SS-Pz.Korps

More later
Best
Martin

Timo
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#20

Post by Timo » 09 Nov 2002, 22:34

Martin Månsson wrote:More later
Best
Martin
Aaargh, a cliffhanger for the next episode!!! :wink:

Thanks for the info.

Timo
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#21

Post by Timo » 09 Nov 2002, 22:41

I was thinking:

9/8 - ?/8 - 1944 SS-Pz.Brig. Gross/Stab 52 Sich.Div/XXXIX.Pz-Korps/Pz.AOK 3 HGr. Mitte
22/8 - 1944 Gruppe Sasse (Equal to Stab 52 Sich.Div.) AOK 16/HGr. Nord

and

Panzer-Division Lauchert organization chart, dated 12.9.44
"Brigade Hq with Signal Platoon and MP Platoon
Mixed Panzer Bn with 2 Panzer companies(include 1x 5 cm L42, 7x 5cm L60, 1x 7,5 cm L24, 1x7,5 cm L43, 3x 7,5 cm L70, 1x 7,5cm L48 StuG) and one SPW Company(17 SPW)
Gren Bn 1
Aufkl Abt 1(8 SpaehWagen)"

Does this transfer from Pz.Brig.Gross to Gruppe Sasse explain why on 12.09.1944 only Gren.Bn.1 is listed? To me it seems that Inf.Bn.2 aka Einheit Runge was only with Pz.Brig.Gross for a few weeks.

Also, regarding the info provided by Frederick, were did the schwere Panzerkompanie go? They are not listed in any of the OoB's.

Would this be a likely OoB for the gemischte Panzer-Abteilung, given the available info?

- Stab
- 1.(Panzer)Kompanie
- 2.(Panzer)Kompanie
- 3.(schw.Pz.)Kompanie
- 4.(SPW)Kompanie

More questions: what about that Pi.Komp.? Where would they fit into the Gliederung? And the mentioned Artillerie, FlaK and Inst.Komp.?

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Daniel L
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#22

Post by Daniel L » 10 Nov 2002, 17:52

History
This unit was formed on 8 August 1944 from elements of the SS Panzer Troop Training and Replacement Regiment at Dondangen, Latvia, along with SS Panzer Troop Training Regiment '"Seelager". By 16 August, the brigade had attained a personnel strength of 2500 and was attached to a new and temporary Divisional Command: Panzer-Division Strachwitz.

The entire formation first went into action against the Soviet 51st Army units in and around the town of Tuckem on 20 August. In September, Brigade Gross was detached from Pz.Div.Strachwitz and dispatched to the Dorpat area to counter another Soviet offensive. The brigade fought in the Baltic area during September to October 1944.

In November the unit was withdrawn from the Baltic and sent to the Waffen SS Troop training Area Sennelager near Danzig, Prussia. From there it was sent to another training area in Westphalia. There the brigade was broken up and its sub-units were used as replacements for the 6th Panzer Army.

Organization
Aufklarungs-Abteilung with a Kradschutzen-Kompanie, an armored car company and a RAD/Kettenrad company. Panzer-Abteilung with two companies with a total of 10-15 Pz.III's and Pz.IV's. Two Panzer Grenadier Battalions each with four SPW companies. Two Artillery Batteries form the 19.SS-Div. s.SS-Pz.Kp.(assigned on 15 August 1944 from s.SS-Pz.Abt.103) Kp/SS-StuG-Abt.1 a provisional Pioneer company with a mot pioneer platoon and an armored rocket launcher platoon. Flak Company with four platoons (the platoons came from the Luftwaffe and from SS-Flak Battalion 54)

Commanders
Martin Gross

from: http://www.feldgrau.com/sspzbrig-g.html

Panzer Brigade "Gross", 3 coy Pz III/IV some VI (1 coy sw SS Pz Abt 103 !),
STG IV, IG, STG, Flak.

from: http://home.wanadoo.nl/thomas.kolley/datawwiiwh.html

SS-Obersturmfüuhrer Martin Gross

Biography

Joined LSSAH 1933; graduated SS OCS school 1935
Served Poland, France, Balkans, Russia, WIA 1941
1943: Commanding Officer, 1st Panzer Regiment, Kursk. Destroyed 90+ Soviet tanks; awarded Knight's Cross
1944: CO, Panzer Brigade Gross;
1945: CO, 12th Panzer Regiment, Ardennes Offensive & Hungary

Alternate Names:
SS-Panzer Brigade Seelager


DESCRIPTION
Scratch panzer unit that fought tenaciously against the Soviets in Latvia during the autumn of 1944.


COMMANDERS
SS-Obersturmfüuhrer Martin Gross 08/1944 -11/1944


COMPOSITION

23 PzKfw III's & IV's
1 Tiger Panzer Comapny (7 Tigers most likely from Schwere SS-Panzer Abteilung 103)
1st SS-Sturmgeschutz Battalion (12 StuG III's)
2 infantry battalions
supply battalion
engineer company (possibly armed with rocket launchers)
flak battery
heavy infantry gun company
armored signals company
unit strength: roughly 2,500 troops


UNIT HISTORY

August 1944: Panzer Brigade Gross created in three days from SS Armored Training and Replacement Regiment and SS Panzer Troop Training Regiment Seelager in Latvia plus the 1st company of the Schwere SS-Panzer Abteilung 103 (503); immediately sent into combat to counterattack Soviet advance.
Aug 8: heavy combat against an entire Soviet calvary corps, Libau, Latvia.
Aug 19: attached to Panzer-Division Strachwitz; Reinforced with 5 additional PzKpfv IV's
Aug 20: counterattacks Soviet forces
Aug 28: transferred to Joesuu

September - October 1944: combat Kurland, Latvia
Sept 18: covered Germany Army withdrawl from Narva

November 1944: unit disbanded; disbandment disguised as the forming of the imaginary "SS-Panzerregiment 26 Reichsmarschall"

from. http://www.wssob.com/000pzgrss.html#

The Schwere SS-Panzer Abteilung 103 was a Waffen-SS heavy tank unit either formed from/attached to the 11th SS Division and the III SS-Panzerkorps. Armed with King Tiger tanks, Schwere SS-Panzer Abteilung 103 spent most of its war record in defensive battles against the Soviet Army in 1944 and 1945.

Obersturmbannführer Leiner - 1944
Sturmbannführer Herzig - 1945

The proscribed strength of a heavy Panzer Abteilung armed with Tiger II's was roughly 44 tanks and 900 men. The unit was further subdivided into 3 companies of 14 tanks each, plus the Abteilung command tanks. However, Schwere SS-Panzer Abteilungs were rarely at their proscribed strength during the war.


August 1944: 1st Company transferred to Panzer Brigade Gross

September 1944: Unit renamed as a army level support unit (500 series) rather than corps level (100 series); transferred to Sennelager for tank training.

October 1944: rearmed with roughly 37 King Tiger tanks.


January 1945: Jan 27: Shipped to eastern front, part of unit to Arnswalde, the remainder to Landsberg-Küstrin; unit strength: 45 King Tigers


February 1945: Feb 4: Arnswalde unit surrounded by Soviets
Feb 12: Arnswalde unit relieved by III SS-Panzerkorps (Germanisches)

March 1945: unit regroups, but split again by Soviet advance; part of unit subdivided into 4 components and assigned to infantry divisions, Danzig.

April 1945: 6 of 503rd's panzers shipped to Berlin via Swinemünde; participate in Battle of Berlin, possibly amalgamated into the SS-Panger Regiment 11 of the Nordland division & supporting the 33rd Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS, some crewmembers serve as infantry.

May 1945: remainder of unit decimated in East Prussia, surrendered

from: http://www.wssob.com/103abtssp.html

regards

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Daniel L
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#23

Post by Daniel L » 11 Nov 2002, 01:45

some more about Eldh-Albiez:

ELDH-ALBIEZ, Wolfgang
SS-Untersturmführer der Reserve — 21 June 1944

Born:- 10 October 1920.
Fate:- Died 1984.
History: Wolfgang Eldh-Albiez was an expatriate from Hamburg. He did his national service as a Svea Lifguard of the Swedish Army in 1941. He graduated from the SS-Junkerschule "Tölz" at the top of his class spring 1944. He then served with the SS-Panzer-Ersatz Regiment that later would become SS-Panzer-Brigade "Gross". He was badly wounded outside of Riga in the summer of 1944. Eldh-Albiez returned to Sweden in 1945 after having spent the rest of the war in hospitals at Hamburg and Pomerania. He died in 1984.

from: http://www.albitz.de/news/news.html

regards

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Daniel L
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#24

Post by Daniel L » 11 Nov 2002, 01:50

I believe this might be interesting since it mentions Prinz Eugen and Tuckum. Doubtable source 'tough. :wink:

Led by Obersturmbannfuhrer Martin Gross... Army Group Nord has been cut-off with the Soviet summer offensives and the front needs to be stabilized. Brigade Gross, supported by Sturmgeschutz Battalion 202 and naval guns from the Prinz Eugen, are to retake the rail sidings south of Tuckum.

from: http://www.wargamer.com/ef/ef_scenarios.asp

regards

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Daniel L
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#25

Post by Daniel L » 11 Nov 2002, 01:55

RIJKSWACHT Tielt Brigade Gross 51-400013
Gerauln 36 - 8700 TIELT

from: http://page27875-27875.annuairemondial.com/

regards

Timo
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#26

Post by Timo » 11 Nov 2002, 02:06

charlie don't surf wrote:RIJKSWACHT Tielt Brigade Gross 51-400013
Gerauln 36 - 8700 TIELT

from: http://page27875-27875.annuairemondial.com/

regards
Charlie, that last source refers to the police department in the Belgian town of Tielt, Including their address :roll:

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Daniel L
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#27

Post by Daniel L » 11 Nov 2002, 02:25

Oops, well I thought it looked suspicious...anyway- now we got the address to a belgian police department in case we go to belgium. :D

regards

Edward L. Hsiao
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German Cross in Gold Winners

#28

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 17 Jul 2004, 12:09

Gentlemen,

SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Alfred Arnold and SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Friedrich Herzig were awarded the German Cross in Gold while serving in Panzer Brigade "Gross." I'm rather surprised that Martin Gross wasn't awarded any kind of decoration at all for his command of his brigade.

Edward

Mikedc
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#29

Post by Mikedc » 19 Dec 2005, 23:52

SS-Stubaf Friedrich Herzig.
In this thread his DoB is given as 1-7-1915.
But I've 18-7-1915 as his DoB in my files, so which date is correct???

SS-Stubaf Alfred Arnold Jr.
In this thread his DoB is given as 2-1-1915.
But I've 2-1-1916 as his DoB in my files, so which date is correct???


There's mentioned here an SS-Ustuf Hans Bade(DoB 26-5-1922)who should have been a member of SS-Panzer-Brigade 'Gross'.
But in my files Hans Bade was already KIA even before Brigade 'Gross' was raised.
Hans Bade.
Born on 26-5-1922.
Member SS(nr. 363.136).
SS-Untersturmführer.
Till 18-7-1943 he served with 2. Kompanie from SS-Panzergrenadier-Regiment ‘Germania’
with SS-Panzergrenadier-Division ‘Wiking’.
Died(KIA)on 18-7-1943 at Ssrednij.

So how is this possible that he served with Brigade 'Gross' while he was already dead???
Birthdates are a match so it should be the same man but this is highly impossible in my opinion.


Thanks for any corrections or solutions.
Mike

Arensburger
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Re:

#30

Post by Arensburger » 21 Jul 2011, 13:05

Timo wrote:Here's an update. This is what the article about the Brigade contains at this moment:

...........
One day later, on 20.08.1944, AOK 18 reports a strength for SS-Panzer-Brigade Gross of 20 Panzer (all types), two SPW-Kompanien (30-40 SPW) and a schwere Kompanie on SPW.

For 22.08.1944, Panzer-Division Strachwitz reports the following strength for SS-Panzer-Brigade Gross: a personnel strength of 720, a mixed Panzer-Abteilung with three Panther, five Pz.III and Pz.IV, three T34 Beutepanzer and twenty SPW. The Brigades supply and repair facilities are mostly in the area east of Windau as is their 60-ton transport column.
........
http://starbacks.ca/~orion47/WEHRMACHT/ ... INRAD.html
Generalmajor Meinhard von Lauchert
Leader of Panzer-Special-Unit Strachwitz (24.Aug 1944-01 Mar 1945)
http://www.ritterkreuztraeger-1939-45.d ... ilhelm.htm
So griff der Panzerverband Graf Strachwitz am 24.08.1944 aus dem Raum südlich Elwa Rücken und Flanke des Gegners an und nahm nach harten Kämpfen die Ortschaft Tamsa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartu_Offensive
A heavy German tank assault had been planned to attack behind the western flank of the Soviet lines in Elva on 24 August. On the night before the attack, the designated commander of the operation Brigadeführer Hyazinth Graf Strachwitz von Gross-Zauche und Camminetz had a serious car accident. The Soviet tank units repulsed the German attack on the following day.
Image
Inspection of destroyed German tank by officers of Red Army on the battle field of Tamsa. Aug-Sept 1944 Estonia

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