HEERESGRUPPE A order of battle 12.I.1945
- Minotauros
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- Joined: 15 Sep 2002, 19:50
- Location: Poland
- Minotauros
- Financial supporter
- Posts: 1403
- Joined: 15 Sep 2002, 19:50
- Location: Poland
- Minotauros
- Financial supporter
- Posts: 1403
- Joined: 15 Sep 2002, 19:50
- Location: Poland
- Kamen Nevenkin
- Member
- Posts: 168
- Joined: 01 Aug 2002, 14:10
- Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
Andreas wrote:Does anyone have German losses in the Vistula-Oder operation?
All the best
Andreas
1.1.45 - 10.2.45 - KIA / WIA / MIA
1.PzA - 3,267 / 14,122 / 2,424
17.A - 14,104 / 17,458 / 7,706
4.PzA - 3,141 / 17,754 / 11,552
9.A - 2,106 / 9,051 / 2,246
2.A - 3,072 / 20,359 / 30,970
4.A - 3,778 / 13,384 / 1,400
3.PzA - 12,337 / 54,240 / 12,217
Clearly not from the HA ten-days - which is good, as they so obviously give understated figures in 1945. Comparison:
............Kamen.............HA 10-day (RH2/1355)
1.PzA - 19,813...........9,396
17.A - 39,268.............22,531
4.PzA - 32,447...........32,543
9.A - 13,403...............595
2.A - 54,401................24,242
4.A - 18,562................47,139
3.PzA - 78,794............15,597
Total - 256,688............152,043
Now, the interesting part. The ten-days give a total of 411,705 casualties in the East in January and February. As you may know there is also an OrgAbt report which gives a total of 606,000 for the same period and states that this is an incomplete figure. From this I think it is reasonable to expect that the HA ten-day figures were in reality at most 2/3 of the losses actually suffered in this period, and very probably significantly less than this. Compared to the figures you give, they are in fact somewhat less than 40%, which again leads me to suspect that the figures you quote may very well be quite accurate (or at least more accurate than any other I have seen for this period).
I would be extremely grateful for some further information on their origin, and if at all possible, an archive reference!
cheers
............Kamen.............HA 10-day (RH2/1355)
1.PzA - 19,813...........9,396
17.A - 39,268.............22,531
4.PzA - 32,447...........32,543
9.A - 13,403...............595
2.A - 54,401................24,242
4.A - 18,562................47,139
3.PzA - 78,794............15,597
Total - 256,688............152,043
Now, the interesting part. The ten-days give a total of 411,705 casualties in the East in January and February. As you may know there is also an OrgAbt report which gives a total of 606,000 for the same period and states that this is an incomplete figure. From this I think it is reasonable to expect that the HA ten-day figures were in reality at most 2/3 of the losses actually suffered in this period, and very probably significantly less than this. Compared to the figures you give, they are in fact somewhat less than 40%, which again leads me to suspect that the figures you quote may very well be quite accurate (or at least more accurate than any other I have seen for this period).
I would be extremely grateful for some further information on their origin, and if at all possible, an archive reference!
cheers
- Kamen Nevenkin
- Member
- Posts: 168
- Joined: 01 Aug 2002, 14:10
- Location: Sofia, Bulgaria
These are indeed ten day reports of HA im OKH, but I got them from UK, not from Freiburg. The archive index is M.I. 14/270.
I hope that my figures are correct, or at least my calculator says so. Anyway, for everybody's reference, I'm ready to post the ten-day breakdowns, but it will take some time . To be exact, I'm very keen to compare them with the detailed casualty figures given in the HGr Sued KTB Anlagen (as only available cross reference from that time), but this is time consuming as well.
Kamen
I hope that my figures are correct, or at least my calculator says so. Anyway, for everybody's reference, I'm ready to post the ten-day breakdowns, but it will take some time . To be exact, I'm very keen to compare them with the detailed casualty figures given in the HGr Sued KTB Anlagen (as only available cross reference from that time), but this is time consuming as well.
Kamen