Reichsführung-SS Sondertruppen

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Charles Trang
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Reichsführung-SS Sondertruppen

Post by Charles Trang » 18 May 2007 09:06

A few months ago, when I was not yet a member of this forum, I had read a very interesting topic which I could not find again presently, that is why I open this new topic. The question was : why did the SS-Korpstruppen changed their numbers (from the "100" series to the "500" series) in october 1944 ? I would like to bring my answer to this since I have found some documents in the BA Lichterfelde which would lighten this "mystery".
Heinrich Himmler and Hans Jüttner were very angry against their Korps-Kommandeure as most of them just refused to obey the SS-FHA orders concerning the KAN and KStN of the Korpstruppen. Some of the Korps-Kommandeure had created on their own initiative a few surnumerary units and, on the other hand, oversized the existing units. These initiatives where sometimes disastrous in terms of losses and caused many economic, administrative and logistic problems. So, as a reprisal against these disobeyances, Himmler decided to retrieve of the Korps-Kommandeure some of their most important units : these were to be under his direct command and so bear the "500" serial numbers, and those who stayed under Korps command kept the "100" serial numbers. You will find attached to this post some of the documents relative to this question.

Charles Trang
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Post by Charles Trang » 18 May 2007 09:09

These are the documents :
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Charles Trang
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Post by Charles Trang » 18 May 2007 09:10

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Charles Trang
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Post by Charles Trang » 18 May 2007 09:12

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Post by Charles Trang » 18 May 2007 09:14

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Post by Charles Trang » 18 May 2007 09:17

Last one.
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Dieter Zinke
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Post by Dieter Zinke » 18 May 2007 14:59

Outstanding !! Thank you :)

Dieter Z.

Michi
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Post by Michi » 18 May 2007 23:32

Hello Charles,

thanks for your lists.

Have a look for further units of the Sondertruppen der Reichsführung SS
http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 587#121587
(the first 5 are SdTr d. RFSS)

Furtheron some units of the Sondertruppen der Reichsführung SS:
SS-Röntgen-Sturmbann/SS-Röntgen-Bataillon
SS-Panzer-Kompanie 105/505 later (or vice versa) SS-Panzer-Abteilung 105/505
SS-Sturmgeschütz-Batterie 105/505 later (or vice versa) SS-Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung 105/505.
(both used mainly captured Italian tanks and assault-guns)
SS-Panzer-Grendier-Bataillon 506
SS-Ski-Bataillon 506

Although within the XVII. Waffen-Korps der SS (ungarisches) only the
Kdt/CO, Ia/CoS & O1/??, IIa/?? were really occupied, there was also (in End of April 1945) the Waffen-Korps-Begleit-&-Sicherungs-Kompanie der SS 517, and the Waffen-Korps-Nachrichten-Abteilung der SS 517 in working condition.There was also a trained Waffen-FlaK-Abteilung der SS 517, but with no weapons.


Do you know, were there any SS-Army troops
[e.g. for the 6. SS-Panzer-Armee; maybe the 11. (SS-)(Panzer-)Armee]???



MfG Michi

Marc Rikmenspoel
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Post by Marc Rikmenspoel » 20 May 2007 04:00

I agree, thanks for this valuable information. I can add slightly to the listed units. At some point after the above document was compiled (circa March 1945), SS-Werfer Abteilungen 1 & 12 (from the LAH and the HJ Divisionen) were renumbered as 501 and 512, and thus could be removed from their parent divisions. This is per documets kindly supplied to me by John Nelson, from his archive shared with Martin Block.

While those two rocket unit were of course part of the 6. Panzerarmee, I can mention specifically another element not shown on the documents (unless I missed it). That is the signal troops. While the 6. Panzerarmee had its own SS-Armee-Nachrichten Reg. 6, the I. & II. SS-Panzerkorps had to renumber to SS-Korps-Nachricten Abteilungen 501 & 502 (and this was true of the other corps level signal battalions too). Meanwhile, two other Signal Regiments did get the 500 series numbering, SS-Führungs-Nachrichten Regimenter 500/501 & 503.

One last unit which was created after the above documents were released is the second antiaircraft battalion that served with the V. SS-Gebirgskorps on the Oder Front. It received the designation SS-Flak Abteilung 550 (since SS-Flak Abteilung 505 already served with the corps).

Finally, I find it interesting to note two units that remained under corps-level jurisdiction, with both being surplus infantry regiments. So far as I can tell, both Waffen-Grenadier Regiment 103 (romanisches #1) and Waffen-Grenadier Regiment 106 (lettisches #7) retained their 100 series numbering until they were dissolved.

Michi
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Post by Michi » 20 May 2007 19:45

Marc Rikmenspoel wrote:I agree, thanks for this valuable information. I can add slightly to the listed units. At some point after the above document was compiled (circa March 1945), SS-Werfer Abteilungen 1 & 12 (from the LAH and the HJ Divisionen) were renumbered as 501 and 512, and thus could be removed from their parent divisions. This is per documets kindly supplied to me by John Nelson, from his archive shared with Martin Block.
Oh, Gospodin Blockoveech has also his hands in that game. :lol: :lol:
Marc Rikmenspoel wrote:Finally, I find it interesting to note two units that remained under corps-level jurisdiction, with both being surplus infantry regiments. So far as I can tell, both Waffen-Grenadier Regiment 103 (romanisches #1) and Waffen-Grenadier Regiment 106 (lettisches #7) retained their 100 series numbering until they were dissolved.
Thanks Marc, that were units which I have forgotten to mention -at least here.
So the Waffen-Grenadier-Regiment der SS 103 (rumänische Nr. 1) was the part of the III. SS-Panzer-Korps.
When was it dissolved?? ('cause I thought the Romanians fought till the End).
The Waffen-Grenadier-Regiment der SS 106 (lettische Nr. 7) was part of the VI. Waffen-Korps der SS (lettisches). Some sources say it was dissolved End of January 1945, other sources say it fought also till the End.
Do you have any informations about other SS-Army troops within the 6. SS-Panzerarmee.

In the last weeks of the 3rd Reich there was a so-called SS-Feld-Ersatz-Brigade 101/501 CO was a SS-Obersturmbannführer Siebken, Bernhard, in the I. SS-Panzer-Korps.
Furtheron there was also a SS-Feld-Ersatz-Brigade 103/503 CO was a SS-Obersturmbannführer Lang, in the III. SS-Panzer-Korps.

Was there also a SS-F.Ers.Brig. 102/502???



MfG Mìchi

Charles Trang
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Post by Charles Trang » 21 May 2007 09:01

I am sorry for "disobeyance". It should be read "disobedience".
Don't forget that the documents I have posted are dating from 4.10.44 that is why some units are missing. Moreover, some sheets belonging to this order are also missing as it is often the case with SS documents. However, thank you for the link and for the additional informations.

Michi
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Post by Michi » 21 May 2007 14:33

Hi Charles,

the date doesn't matter.
As your thread is one of the very few to post
troops of the
Reichsführung SS
SS-Army troops
SS-Corps troops,

so I took my chance.

So maybe it will be more.





MfG Michi

Charles Trang
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Post by Charles Trang » 21 May 2007 16:02

I have thousands of documents from the Bundesarchiv. Most of them are not very interesting when they are viewed out of their context but they can be of great value if they are related to a peculiar research. Are you interested by Korps-Gliederungen ?

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Post by Jan-Hendrik » 21 May 2007 16:08

Yes, dear Charles, we are 8-)

Jan-Hendrik

ORPO51
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Post by ORPO51 » 21 May 2007 17:21

Hi All,

Here is my 2 cents worth, I believe this list is dated around February 1945.

Sorry that they are in reverse order. The way this software works you have to attach the last page first to get it in the right order.

I will post the rest of the list later. It consists of all the Waffen-SS regiments.

Peter
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