6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

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Ypenburg
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Ypenburg » 27 Oct 2008 22:27

Thanks for the up-date on info, Simon. :D

Since I'm pretty sure you have the 6.GB book: The newspaper article you mention is that the same as (translated into German) was placed in the Tiroler Tageszeitung nr. 196 28.8.1958, as mentioned on page 446 of the book??

Cheers
Ypenburg

Simon Orchard
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Simon Orchard » 27 Oct 2008 23:10

This was in the local newspaper Nordlys, Tuesday the 26th August 1958 here in Norway which will have been the original article before it was summarized nationally and internationaly. The location the body was found has also answered a question i'd long wondered about, which route did they take? At least the group that didn't make it. it also seems that they had gone into a dead end as the way further where the body was found was impassable.

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Bjørn from Norway
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Bjørn from Norway » 28 Oct 2008 18:57

Hello!
As Simon says, more than 5 were captured.

I have 2 sources indicating a) 11 and b) 14.
In fact, it is most possible that some of the "deserters" stil are alive, and needless to say, could be invaluable possible sources for the incident itself.

Norwegian post 8th May 45 newapapers should not be trusted as reliable sources at all.
There would be, of course, German documents on this incidence.

Was this a court martial, or a case for a judge? None of my sources mention that.

There were other death sentences in April-June 45 in Norway, still none of this size really.

B.

Ypenburg
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Ypenburg » 29 Oct 2008 10:05

Simon Orchard wrote:This was in the local newspaper Nordlys, Tuesday the 26th August 1958 here in Norway which will have been the original article before it was summarized nationally and internationaly. The location the body was found has also answered a question i'd long wondered about, which route did they take? At least the group that didn't make it. it also seems that they had gone into a dead end as the way further where the body was found was impassable.
Thanks Simon. The 6. GB-Geschichte mentions a Norwagian radio-transmittion which was used by the Tiroler newpaper. It mentions fighting between Germans & Austrians, and SS. Is that also mentioned by the newspaper??

Cheers
Ypenburg
Last edited by Ypenburg on 29 Oct 2008 10:11, edited 1 time in total.

Ypenburg
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Ypenburg » 29 Oct 2008 10:10

Bjørn from Norway wrote:Hello!
As Simon says, more than 5 were captured.

I have 2 sources indicating a) 11 and b) 14.
In fact, it is most possible that some of the "deserters" stil are alive, and needless to say, could be invaluable possible sources for the incident itself.

Norwegian post 8th May 45 newapapers should not be trusted as reliable sources at all.
There would be, of course, German documents on this incidence.

Was this a court martial, or a case for a judge? None of my sources mention that.

There were other death sentences in April-June 45 in Norway, still none of this size really.

B.
"
Thanks "Bjørn from Norway".

Since I only have the 6. GB-Geschichte, could you please indicate your sources?

According to this book it was a field-court martial by the Division itself. Since the Obj. and almost 60 deserters made it to Sweden and weren't turned over to the Russians, there would be indeed a big change that some are still alive today. Maybe a member from Austria can provide some more info on this??

Cheers
Ypenburg

Simon Orchard
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Simon Orchard » 30 Oct 2008 18:27

Ypenburg wrote:
Simon Orchard wrote:This was in the local newspaper Nordlys, Tuesday the 26th August 1958 here in Norway which will have been the original article before it was summarized nationally and internationaly. The location the body was found has also answered a question i'd long wondered about, which route did they take? At least the group that didn't make it. it also seems that they had gone into a dead end as the way further where the body was found was impassable.
Thanks Simon. The 6. GB-Geschichte mentions a Norwagian radio-transmittion which was used by the Tiroler newpaper. It mentions fighting between Germans & Austrians, and SS. Is that also mentioned by the newspaper??

Cheers
Ypenburg
Other than the specifics of what was discovered at the time the rest of the report cannot be trusted, yes it does talk of fighting between Austrians and Germans and mentions the possibility of up to 30 Austrians being killed. It's to be treated as you would any other newspaper report.

I actually have a documents grouping to a member of 4./GAR 118, what's interesting is that all the documents have him as part of that battery except the last, his Lapplandschild from July 45.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... ignaldalen

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Bjørn from Norway
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Bjørn from Norway » 04 Dec 2008 11:19

Hello!
Now I have the book "Til befolkningen" in front of me.
I quote:

Ogfr Bruckner, the leader, was the one who shot Hptm Dirnbacher, and took his uniform. The second commander of the batterly, Olt Fromm was killed by others.

There were totally 59 men. They parted in two groups; the largest (48 men) led by Bruckner, got to Sweden (at "Treriksrøysa") . The smallest group, 11 men, were caught. The 4 NCOs here, were executed as fast as possible, gen. F. Jodl in Narvik gave his approvement of the sentence via phone from Narvik.

B.

Simon Orchard
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Simon Orchard » 04 Dec 2008 16:53

That account really can't be trusted on it's own because it also talks of 'a large part of the 6 SS Division, units of which came over to Swedish territory during the retreat. Their leader General Müller was also interned there' . That of course is complete rubbish.

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Bjørn from Norway
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Bjørn from Norway » 05 Dec 2008 12:24

Hello!

That is true, Simon.
There were a number of German deserters from the 6th SS, so far so good, but then is this "Müller"...

B.

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Bjørn from Norway
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Bjørn from Norway » 10 Feb 2009 17:13

Hello!
Another update, fron a new book I got. (Fløtten: "Den tause fronten")

The author has done research and some interwiews.
Ypenburg has right about Kuhn. So those killed by the deserters, were Hptm Kornbacher and Lt Kuhn.
The one who shot them, was the leader of the deserters, a Ogrf Wilhelm Grimburg from Vienna. He survived the war.

The Hptm is btw also possibly named "Sornberger" or even "Kornberger". I am not able to find him in any gravesearch, which migh mean the name is wrong.

Appearently those who were executed, were the only one caught. One other did commit suicide.
They were executed in Signaldalen by a group from the divisional intelligence. Those interned in Sweden were handed over to the Soviets, while Grimburg later worked in a Austrian governmental department.

B.

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Heimatschuss
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Heimatschuss » 26 Oct 2011 09:40

Hello,

the Captain murdered must be Hauptmann Walter Schörnberger.

From http://www.volksbund.de :
Walter Schörnberger ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Botn-Rognan.
Endgrablage: Block B Grab 115

Nachname: Schörnberger
Vorname: Walter
Dienstgrad: Hauptmann
Geburtsdatum: 10.05.1917
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 08.05.1945
The murderer was Obergefreiter Wilhelm Grimburg, later a career official (Sektionschef = (department director) in the Austrian Ministry of Science and Research.
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-42853993.html
Simon Orchard wrote:The claim that the British Brigade HQ in Tromsö sanctioned the executions is impossible as there were no British in Tromsø as yet by the 10th
The magazine article above also mentions another 9 death sentences in this case passed out on May 21, 1945 which must have been in absentia. Could this be the death sentences that were okayed by the British forces HQ in Tromsö?

Best regards
Torsten
Last edited by Heimatschuss on 26 Oct 2011 21:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Heimatschuss
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Re: 6. Gebirgs-Division mutiny

Post by Heimatschuss » 26 Oct 2011 11:24

Sigh,

when you think you have it, it all goes up in smoke again. This case must be totally botched.

The family name on the grave must be wrong. There's no entry for 'Schörnberger' in the national phone books of Germany and Austria (www.verwandt.de, www.verwandt.at). Nothing useful in Google or GoogleBooks either. Just this entry in www.volksbund.de

The best existing alternatives are Schernberger and Schönberger, the previously mentioned Sornberger also exists.

Best regards
Torsten

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