SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. "Klotz"

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L.Luke
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SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. "Klotz"

Post by L.Luke » 18 May 2008 19:06

Hello, I am looking for any info on this SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt. "Klotz". I know that it was formed in late 1944. I have a Wehrpass with this unit entry and have seen one Soldbuch with entry. A quick search on-line reveiled almost nothing. thanks

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Doktor Krollspell
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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 18 May 2008 19:53

Hello L.Luke!

There was a Rudolf Klotz who recieved the DKiG on 14.11.1944 as a SS-Sturmbannfüher in/commanding(?) SS-Pz.GR "Schill". Maybe the Regiment, or part of it took the name after Klotz? Just my two cents...


Regards,

Krollspell

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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by freddiefro » 18 May 2008 20:28

In “Axis History Factbook” (http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2005), it states that SS-Grenadier-Regiment Klotz was absorbed by 23. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division Nederland (niederlandische Nr. 1) in Feb 1945.

-Fred

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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by L.Luke » 19 May 2008 00:34

The wehrpass states 9-9-44 thru 12-11-44, 9/SS PZ GR AUSB RGT "KLOTZ"
13-11-44 thru 29-1-45 9/SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"
30-1-45 thru 31-1-45 1/R.F.-SS-B. BTL. Z.B.V
2-2-45 thru 4-7-45 1/Begl. Btl. (or brigade)RF-SS

His training unit was SS PZ GREN ERS BTL 18

He was wounded on feb 5 1945 near Stargaard, Pomerania. I think the 11 SS div was fighting near their.

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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 19 May 2008 06:00

BeglBtl. RFSS fought at Arnswalde at that time, that fits...before he was propably with SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Schule Kienschlag, were Rgt. Klotz was formed to fight the slovakian Urprising in 1944.

Jan-Hendrik

Charles Trang
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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Charles Trang » 19 May 2008 15:57

I am not at home, so I do not have my documents at hand but you can find valuable informations on SS-Rgt."Klotz" in one of the early Siegrunen magazines (in the article related to the slovak uprising) and in Krätschmer's "Die Ritterkreuzträger der Waffen-SS" : SS-Ostuf. Hans Kettgen won the Knight's Cross as Kdr. I./SS-Rgt."Klotz". The regiment was formed with two Panzergrenadiere Bataillonen (from SS-Pz.Gren.Schule "Kienschlag") and a few support companies (among them, a StuG-Bttr., equipped with old short-barrelled StuG.III). Kettgen won his Knight's Cross for gallant action in Banska Bystrica.

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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by L.Luke » 20 May 2008 02:51

Thanks!, this is really helping. If you guys have more info , keep it coming. And for the RF-SS entry. Late war info seems less available and sketchy. I collect wehrpass and soldbuchs and the history connected to them makes it a fascinating hobby.

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Doktor Krollspell
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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Doktor Krollspell » 20 May 2008 06:12

Hello again Gentlemen!
Charles Trang wrote:SS-Ostuf. Hans Kettgen won the Knight's Cross as Kdr. I./SS-Rgt."Klotz". The regiment was formed with two Panzergrenadiere Bataillonen (from SS-Pz.Gren.Schule "Kienschlag") and a few support companies (among them, a StuG-Bttr., equipped with old short-barrelled StuG.III). Kettgen won his Knight's Cross for gallant action in Banska Bystrica.
According to Veit Scherzer's "Ritterkreuzträger 1939-1945" (2005), Hans Kettgen recieved his RK on 14.02.1945 as a SS-Hauptsturmführer while Kdt. I./SS-Pz.GR "Schill" (Alarmeinheit aus SS-Pz.Gren. Schule Kienschlag und SS-Pz.Gren.A.u.E. Btl. 10.

Probably the same unit which must have switched name but when and why?


Regards,

Krollspell

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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Semenov » 20 May 2008 09:18

Hello,
SS-Grenadier Rgt. Klotz was formed in Dezember 1944 in Bohmen-Mahren (SS-Pz.Gr. Schule Kienschlag). From February 1945 with 23. SS-Division. Gliederung - I (1-4), II (5-8), 13, 14, 15. Tessin G. Bd.14. S.143.
CO- obersturmfuhrer Klotz.

Regards!

RolandP
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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by RolandP » 22 May 2008 14:52

Hello,

I have short information about the Regiment Klotz

Nachdem am 22.12.1944 das bei der SS-PzGrenSchule Kienschlag aufgestellte SS-PzGren-Lehr-Rgt als SS-PzGrenRgt”Kaiser” geschlossen als Ersatz für das bei den Kämpfen am Westwall (bei Metz) zerschlagene SS-PzGrenRgt 38 der 17.SS-PzGrenDiv”GvB” im Raum Landstuhl zugeführt wor-den war, wurde an der Schule mit der Aufstellung eines neuen Lehr-Regimentes begonnen.
Mit der Aufstellung des neuen Rgt unter SS-Ostubaf. Rudolf Klotz wurde Anfang Januar 1945 begonnen (?)
Auch in diesem Rgt überwog der Anteil an volksdeutschen Mannschaften.

Standort war Neudorf (Networtschitz)

Gliederung:
Regiments-Stab
Stabs-Kompanie

I.Bataillon mit
Stab, Nachrichtenstaffel
Versorgungs-Kompanie
1.-3.Gren.-Kp
4.schwere Kompanie

II.Bataillon wie I.Btl.

13.IG-Kp
14.Fla-Kp
15.Aufkl.-Kp

Anfang Februar 1945 wurde das SS-PzGren-Lehr-Rgt auf Befehl des SS-FHA im Eisenbahntransport nach Pommern verlegt, wo es im Versammlungsraum des aus Kurland zurückgeführten III. (germ.) SS-PzKorps zur Auffüllung der Einheiten des Korps zu verwenden war.

Mit dem Eintreffen im Ausladeraum v.6. – 8.2.1945 wurde das Rgt auf Befehl des GenKdo. III. (germ.) SS-PzKorps, Ia, TgbNr. 350/45 geh. v. 4.2.1945 aufgelöst und zur Auffüllung der 11.SS-FrwPzGrenDiv ”Nordland” und der 4.SS-Frw.Pz.-Gren.-Brig.,ab 10.2. 45 23.SS-FrwPzGrenDiv”Nederland” wie folgt verwandt:
Es traten
a) zur 11.SS-FrwPzGrenDiv”Nordland” im Raum Freienwalde:
I.Btl. (ohne BtlStab,NachrStaffel und Versorgungskp.)
13.(IG) – Kp. (nur infanteristisch ausgebildet)
b) zur 23.SS-FrwPzGrenDiv”Nederland” im Raum Gollnow
II.Btl. (ohne BtlStab und Vers.Kp)
15. (Aufkl)-Kp (nur infanteristisch ausgebildet)

Die im Raum Gollnow/ Pommern in Stärke von etwa 800 Mann bei der 23.SS-FrwPzGrenDiv”Neder-land” am 8.2.45 eingetroffenen Teile des Rgt wurden vornehmlich zur Auffrischung des SS-Freiw. PzGrenRgt 49”De Ruyter” verwandt. (BA-MA N 756)

Das II.Btl. des SS-PzGren.-Lehr-Regimentes, Rgts.-Kdr. SS-Ostubaf.Klotz, wird von Neweklau, SS-TrÜb Pl. Beneschau bei Prag, im Dezember 1944 auf dem TrÜbPl."Hammerstein", 15 Kilometer östlich Neustettin, als II.Btl. dem neuaufgestellten SS-Frw.PzGren.Rgt.48 "Generaal Seyffart" der 4.SS-PzGren.Brig. "Ndl" eingegliedert
(Vincx/Schotanius,Bd.3,23.PGD"Ndl",S.466; s.a.R.Michaelis,Die PzGren.Div.d.W SS, S.296)

Die Restteile des SS-PzGren-Lehr-Rgt,
RgtsStab
Rgts-Stabs-Kompanie
14. (Fla) –Kp.,
verblieben zunächst zur Verfügung des GenKdo III.(germ) SS-PzKorps im Raum Böck-Daber-Vörschendorf. Ab dem 12.2.45 wurden aus diesen Teilen nach Zuführung von weiteren Ersatzmann-schaften das SS-PzGrenRgt”Klotz” aufgestellt. (SS-GrenRgt”Klotz” Stab, Einh. FPNr. 31 638, I.Btl. (1.-4.) 32 373, II.Btl (5.-8.) 34 246,s.a. T/K,S. 112)

Am 12.2.45 wird das "SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt.Klotz" der 23.SS-PzGrenDiv zugeführt und (als SS-Frw.PGR 48) unterstellt. SS-Ostubaf.Klotz übergibt das Rgt.48 am 25.2.45 an Stubaf.Scheibe und übernimmt später die Führung des SS-Frw.PGR 24"Danmark" der 11.SS-Frw.PGD"Nordland".
(Vincx/Schotanius,Bd.3,23.PGD"Ndl",S.475-476,486 ff,s.a.R.Michaelis,Die PzGren.Div.d.W SS,S.298)
Stellenbesetzung des (3.) SS-PzGren-Lehr-Rgt:
Kommandeur: SS-Ostubaf. Rudolf Klotz 00.01.1945 – 00.02.1945


II.Bataillon
SS-Stubaf. Heinz-Dieter Groß (00.11.44) – 00.00.45
(* 23.11.10 Rosenwickel/Schles., gest. 15. 9.81, SS-Nr.109 753, 4.35 Strm.i. I./Sta.”Deutschland”, 5.40 Ostuf.i. II./Pz.GR.4, 7.41 Hstuf.u. Chef,5./Inf.Rgt."Nordland", 11.44 Stubaf.u. Kdr.II./Rgt.Klotz, 2.45 Stubaf.u. Kdr.Begl.Btl.z.b.V. RFSS, Moore Führerliste)

Unterstellungen:
00.12.1944 – 06.02.1945 SS-PzGren.-Schule Kienschlag/ BdW SS “Böhmen und Mähren”/SS-FHA
06.02.1945 – 08.02.1945 III.(germ.) SS-PzKorps/Hgr Weichsel

but the above mentioned information about the former member of these regiment from his Wehrpass stated
9-9-44 thru 12-11-44, 9/SS PZ GR AUSB RGT "KLOTZ"
13-11-44 thru 29-1-45 9/SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"
30-1-45 thru 31-1-45 1/R.F.-SS-B. BTL. Z.B.V
2-2-45 thru 4-7-45 1/Begl. Btl. (or brigade)RF-SS

so the Regiment Klotz seems to be formed earlier than January 1945 ?! :?

The Begleit-Bataillon RF-SS z.b.V. for special purpose seems to be formed in January 1945 under SS-Stubaf. Heinz Dieter Groß as an escort bataillon of the OB of HGr. Weichsel, Himmler, because the original Begleit-Bataillon RF-SS was in frontline action in the Elsass area and reached the Pommern front early in February 1945?!

Further information would be nice :D

Regards Roland

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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 23 May 2008 05:23

Ähm, Roland, the BeglBtl. RFSS in action around Arnswalde was not identical with the original one, as far as I know the "original" one never reached the front in Pomorania :wink:

Jan-Hendrik

Charles Trang
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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Charles Trang » 23 May 2008 15:42

Concerning Hans Kettgen, Richard Landwehr published a few years ago a whole series of photographs showing his Ritterkreuz attribution ceremony. Leaves were still on the trees so it could not have take place in February 1945. Officers and soldiers alike did not wear winter clothes. I am still away from home so I cannot check but what date is given by Krätschmer or Schneider ?

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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Marc Rikmenspoel » 24 May 2008 05:35

Charles, I have the Siegrunen article you mention, as found in Siegrunen Anthology #3. I believe it is correct that Kettgen was finally award the RK on February 14, 1945. The assembly of officers you recall was for the joint German-Slovak (Tiso loyalist) victory parade in Banska Bystrica on October 30, 1944. Kettgen was not wearing his RK in the photos, you might be remembering a photo that shows RK-Träger August-Wilhelm Trabandt and Ernst Schäfer (from the 18. SS-FPGD HW) standing together watching the parade.

About Reg. Schill, "Schill" was the codeword used to activate the unit (based on Napoleonic era Prussian officer Ferdinand von Schill's name). I've read varying accounts of the origin of the regiment, but it seems that it was first organized, or intended to organize, during the events of July 20, 1944. I'm not sure if the codeword was issued that day, but it seems there was a trial run at forming an emergency combat-ready battlegroup out of forces in and around the Beneschau training grounds (mostly from elements at the Prosetznitsch/Kienschlag facility, other than the actual Lehr Reg.). When the Slovak Uprising began in late August 1944, the word "Schill" was issued on the 29th, and the regiment of that name quickly formed near Prague, and went into action in Slovakia already on September 1st.

On a different note, this is a bit of a tangent, but there's been mention of the SS-Panzergrenadier Lehr Regiment. The first version of that regiment, as is known, went to Hungary in March 1944, and there was integrated into the forming 16. SS-PGD RFSS. Later in the year, commander Vincenz Kaiser organized a new Lehr Reg. The first had been well trained, but the second was not. This issue came up once in a discussion I had with the late Keith Bonn. He was very familiar with US Army intelligence reports from the Vosges Mountains campaign, and was surprised to learn that the original Lehr Reg. had been an elite unit. The second version of the regiment, which became SS-PGR 38 at the end of 1944, was described in intelligence reports as consisting of very young ethnic-German men, who had not been well trained. Their morale was also shaky, since their homelands had been overrun by the Red Army months earlier.

RolandP
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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by RolandP » 24 May 2008 17:59

Jan-Hendrik wrote: ... the BeglBtl. RFSS in action around Arnswalde was not identical with the original one, as far as I know the "original" one never reached the front in Pomorania :wink:
hi JH, I know, the bataillon in the Arnswalde pocket was the Begl.Btl. RFSS z.b.V. Groß/Gross, but the other Begl.Btl. RFSS (third formation of this bataillon from former II./SS-Pz.Gren.Rgt 35
Begleit-Btl.RFSS, nun II./SS-PGR 35 FPNr. 01033
II./SS-PGR 35, nun Begleit-Btl.RFSS FPNr. 39852) was in Pommerania in early February 1945 as well, as the former company commander of 4.heavy company, Ostuf. Claus Cordsen stated in a report after the war. He mentioned the transport from the Elsass-aera after January 9th 1945 in the Dramburg - Crössinsee - aera and a following retreat to Stargard and wrote: " ... “… Aus Klemmen (! Lücke zwischen Plöne- und Madü-See südlich Stargard, Roland) retteten wir uns gegen Abend des 10.2.1945 nur dadurch, daß wir uns quer durch die Landschaft über ober-flächlich gefrorenen schweren Acker nach Gr.Schönfeld absetzten – zu Fuß und Verwundete schleppend, rechts und links vom Feind überholt. Einen auf unseren Karten nicht verzeichneten schmalen Kanal konnten wir nur schwimmend überwinden und mußten eine größere Zahl nagelneuer “Hetzer” - kleine, sehr flache Jagdpanzer – gesprengt zurücklassen.
Völlig durchnäßt, aber durch ständige Bewegung warmgehalten, begann unter Mitnahme zahlreicher Ver-sprengter anderer Truppenteile ein langer Nachtmarsch um den Madüsee herum nach Stargard zu unseren Fahrzeugen.

Himmler hatte sich inszwischen mit seinem Stab im Sonderzug “Heinrich”über die Oder angesetzt und in der Nähe von Haßleben, südwestlich von Prenzlau, in der Uckermark in einem Wäldchen niedergelassen. Wir folgten ihm, froh, wieder etwas Ruhe zu finden.
Die Kompanien bezogen Dörfer und Güter um Haßleben herum. Meine schwere Kompanie ließ sich auf dem Gut Pinnow nieder, das dem UFA-Chef Klitzsch gehörte. Hier wurden Treckvorbereitungen getroffen.
Der Frontlärm vom Brückenkopf Schwedt her, etwa 50 Kilometer, war unüberhörbar.

Nach den Verlusten der letzten Wochen hatten wir unsere Kampf- und Einsatzbereitschaft wieder herzustellen. Personelle und materielle Ergänzungen waren erforderlich und erstaunlicherweise auch so kurz vor Ende des Krieges noch möglich – für uns, muß man wohl hinzufügen! Ein Beispiel: 40 nagelneue VW-Geländewagen konnten wir in Wolfsburg abholen.
...
Für Ostubaf.Götz Persch und mich, inszwischen befreundet, ergab sich sogar Gelegenheit, mit unserem Quartiergeber, Hofbesitzer in Gustavsruh und Kreisjägermeister, in seinem herrlichen Revier auf die Pirsch zu gehen. ... " (Manuskript Cordsen, S. 3-4)

Regards yours Roland

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Re: SS PZ GR RGT "KLOTZ"

Post by Jan-Hendrik » 25 May 2008 06:52

Damn, you are right, I simply overlooked it...the KrGl. for 10th February shows "one" BeglBtl." under command of Gruppe General Munzel and one under Kampfgruppe Voigt (Arnswalde)...(And Pol.Btl. z.b.V. under command of stellv. GenKdo. II :wink: ) :D

Jan-Hendrik

EDIT:

Thread regarding the career of Stubaf. Gross, additions warmly welcome :D

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