Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

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geo69jock
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Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#1

Post by geo69jock » 08 Nov 2008, 17:37

There were Origionally three divisions of Reichswehr Reiter Cavalry, eash containing six regiments:

Ist Division: Regiments 1-6
2nd Division: Regiments 7-12
3rd Division: Regiments 13-18

After 1935 these Divisions were (converted / merged) into the expanding Wehrmacht.

The website: German Army Cavalry 1935-1941 explains this process.

Eighteen Reiter-Regiments were converted into Fourteen Kavallerie-Regiments

In what sequence did this conversion occur ?

"Eighteen" does not merge with "Fourteen" evenly, particularly when the 1st Kavallerie-Brigade (East Prussia) got Reiter-Regiments 1-2, in their entirety.

That leaves Reiter-Regiments 3-18 to be (converted / merged) into Kavallerie-Regiments (Numbered 3,4,5,6,8,9,10,11,13,14, 15, and 17), twelve in total !

In what sequence did the remaining 16 Reiter-Regimens (convert / merge) into 12 Kavallerie-Regiments ?

I am particularly interested in the (conversion / merge) of the 11. Reiter-Regiment. It was disolved and
(converted / merged) into a Kavallerie-Regiment in 1936.

To which Kavallerie Regiment were the troops of the 11. Reiter-Regiment sent?

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Bernd R
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Re: Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#2

Post by Bernd R » 09 Nov 2008, 21:43

Hi geo69jock,

big question. I try with an answer not too long. I have a slightly different result in my files.
In short the chronology : 18 RR (1919-1934/35) - 1935 : 13 RR - 1939 : 13 KR and 2 RR of the East Prussian Kav.Brig.

Yes, the history of 18 RR (with 97 Eskadrons in total) assigned to
1. Kavallerie-Division , Frankfurt/Oder - RR 1 - 6
2. Kavallerie-Division , Breslau - RR 7 - 12
3. Kavallerie-Division , Kassel, dann Weimar - RR 13 - 18
just a side-note : the 17. (bayer.) Reiter-Regiment ["Bamberger Reiter"] was assigned to 7. (bayer.) Division until 1928 ; and lateron was listed "der 3. Kav.Div. unterstellt" ; exception for the Bavarians. My avatar is the Bamberger Reiter btw. :)

Just a bit earlier and parallel to the "Gesetz zum Aufbau der Wehrmacht" from 16.03.1935 [Wehrhoheit] there was a first major reorganisation. Five RR as a whole were used to form units of the new Kraftfahrkampftruppen (then Schnelle Truppen, later Panzertruppen) :

May 1935 : RR 4 was used to form Panzer-Regiment 6
May 1935 : RR 7 was used to form II. Abteilung / Panzer-Regiment 2
1934 : RR 11 was redesignated Reiter-Regiment 11 (mot) = Reiter-Regiment Gera ; and in Oct 1934 : was used finally to form Schützen-Regiment 1 and I./Schützen-Regiment 3
Oct 1934 / 1935 : RR 12 was used to form I. Abteilung / Panzer-Regiment 3
Oct 1934 : RR 16 was used to form the Kradschützen-Bataillone 1, 2 and 3

So, in 1935 there remained 13 RR .

A new RR 4 was formed in Allenstein per 15.10.1935.
A new KR 11 was overtaken from the Austrian Army : KR 11, Stockerau, WK XVII , * 01.04.1938 from the Dragoner-Rgts. 1 and 2.
It was planned to form a new KR 7 at Starnberg, Bavaria, but this wasn't realized and cancelled finally with the outbreak of the war.

So, per 1.1.1939 or you can take 1 Sep 1939 (more precise august, prior to the formation of the recon btls.) also, there existed 15 berittene Regimenter - 13 KR and the two RR of the Kav.Brig.

The dates of converion differ a bit in literature (noted slight differences between Klaus-Christian Richter and Tessin especially). If we are not fixed on 101% accuracy about the the dates it is to state that
1) during autumn 1934 and spring 1935 there was the process of the first big conversion from "hüh" to "(mot)" :) ; = motorization. Cavalry men lost horses and yellow color, got an engine and pink color.
2) the reorganisation of the RR to KR took part in 1936/37 ; with two dates of official renaming, 06.10.1936 and 01.07.1936.

You can take a look also on this article, with some passages about the matter in question
Special : Heeres-Kavallerie - history in the 1930s , period of rebirth in 1942-45
My answer is based on the sources provided there ; and bits and pieces added to my files over the years.

I thought I would be best to make a second post with an overview (which answers also a part of your question).

Best regards
Bernd


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Bernd R
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Re: Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#3

Post by Bernd R » 09 Nov 2008, 22:10

RR 1 , Insterburg
/ 1. Kav.Brig. ; Oct 1939 : / 1. Kav.Div.
12/1941 : -> Schtz.Rgt. 21

RR 2 , Angerburg
/ 1. Kav.Brig. ; Oct 1939 : / 1. Kav.Div.
12/1941 : -> Pz.Rgt. 24

RR 3 , Göttingen [the barracks are that of the late 1930s]
01.07.1936 : -> Kav.Rgt. 3
aug 1939 : formed AAs [Aufklärungs-Abteilung (tmot)] 9, 15, 17 ; 152, 157

RR 4 , Potsdam
May 1935 : -> Pz.Rgt. 6 (process since 1934, I./PR 6 from "Pz.Abt. Potsdam", which was transfered to Kraftfahrlehrkommando Zossen)

RR 4 (new) , Allenstein (*15.10.1935)
01.07.1936 : -> KR 4
aug 1939 : formed AAs 1, 11, 21 ; 161

RR 5 , Stolp (tradition badge : "Leibhusaren Totenkopf")
06.10.1936 : KR 5
aug 1939 : formed AAs 12, 32 ; 175
[of note : a new Kav.Rgt. 5 "Feldmarschall von Mackensen" later with the Heereskavallerie]

RR 6 , Darmstadt (1934-37 : Schwedt an der Oder, "Schwedter Adler"!)
06.10.1936 : -> KR 6
aug 1939 : formed AAs 33, 34, 36 ; 79

RR 7 , Breslau / Demmin
May 1935 : -> II./Pz.Rgt. 2

RR 8 , Oels
01.07.1936 : -> KR 8
aug 1939 : formed AAs 8, 18, 28 ; 162

RR 9 , Fürstenwalde
06.10.1936 : KR 9
aug 1939 : formed AAs 3, 23, 46 ; 168. 176

RR 10 , Torgau
01.07.1936 : -> KR 10
aug 1939 : formed AAs 4, 14, 24 ; 156, 187

RR 11 , Gera
1934 : -> RR 11 (mot) / RR Gera ; Oct 1934 : -> Schtz.Rgt. 1 and I./Schtz.Rgt. 3

KR 11 (new) , Stockerau, WK XVII, Austria
* 01.04.1938 from Drag.Rgt. 1 and 2
aug 1939 : formed AAs 44, 45 ; 11/111 / 2. Geb.Div. and 12/112 / 3.Geb.Div.

RR 12 , Dresden
Oct 1934 / 1935 : -> I./Pz.Rgt. 3

RR 13 , Hannover / Lüneburg
06.10.1936 : -> KR 13
aug 1939 : formed AAs 22, 30 ; 152, 158 ; 225, 269

RR 14 , Ludwigslust
01.07.1936 : -> KR 14
aug 1939 : formed AAs 19, 31 ; 156, 171

RR 15 , Paderborn
06.10.1936 : -> KR 15
aug 1939 : AAs 6 [the recon btl. where Georg von Boeselager started his famous career], 16, 26 ; 169, 186

RR 16 , Erfurt
Oct 1934 : -> Kradschtz.Btle 1, 2, and 3

RR 17 , Bamberg ("Bamberger Reiter")
06.10.1936 : -> KR 17
aug 1939 : formed AAs 7, 10, 27 ; Geb.AA 54 / 1. Geb.Div.

RR 18 , Stuttgart-Bad Cannstatt
06.10.1936 : -> KR 18
aug 1939 : formed AAs 5, 25, 35 ; 178


Any add & corr to the reply and any additional answer much appreciated from my side.

Best regards
Bernd

geo69jock
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Re: Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#4

Post by geo69jock » 11 Nov 2008, 05:17

Bernd R
Forum Staff:

Thank you very much for the (convergence / merging) information of Reichwehr Reiter Regiments to Wehrmacht Kavallerie Regiments, ( or other military units) !

My interest is that I have a Weimar-rework Luger 1921, DWM, with the Regimental Unit Mark:

R.R.11.26.

That is:

11TH Prussisches Reiter Regiment, "Stab", Waffe 26

That is, "Stab" for 1St Squadron (training squadron). 11TH Reiter Regiment, was Ohlau, Silesia, for at least 1921-1934.

I understand that the (convergence / merging) of the 11TH R.R., from Reichswehr to Wehrmaqcht was as follows:

The Reichswehr 11Th R.R.: = 1934, R.R.11 (mot) / R.R.Gera: = then Oct. 1934, Schtz. Rgt. 1 / and 1/Schtz. Rgt. 3

Because of the luger, I desire to know the Wehrmacht Division (Divisions) of these units.

What is the probable combat history of this luger ?

I am sure you will realize the "Heart" in the history involved !!!!

geo69jock
Russell Anderson

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Bernd R
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Re: Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#5

Post by Bernd R » 12 Nov 2008, 00:26

Hi Russell,

Yes, for sure fascinating to trace this weapon ! Really tough thing I think.

There are several aspects playing a role IMO. First, to answer your question - yes, Stab RR (mot) 11 and the A-Eskadron [Ausbildungs-Eskadron] were still in OHLAU per 01.04.1934. The further history of the units is :
- "leichte Division Weimar" (former 3. Kav.Div.) was redesignated / renamed 1. Panzer-Division on 15.10.1935. Part of it was 1. Schützen-Brigade, established per 12.09.1935. Schützen-Regiment 1 (named like that also per 15.10.1935) was assigned to 1. Schtz.Brig / 1. Pz.Div. Then you have the whole years with 1. Pz.Div. (renamed Pz.Gren.Rgt. 1 in 1942).
- Schtz.Rgt. 3 was assigned to 3. Schützen-Brigade / 3. Pz.Div. Until the end with the 3. PD, renamed Pz.Gren.Rgt. in 1942, too.

I'm not an expert in weapons and their markings. When you say the marking means "Stab", Waffe 26 it sounds ok to me. Are you sure about your second assumption ? It's not correct IMO. "Stab" is Stab ! :) 1St Squadron (training squadron) is something different.

Here is the Gliederung of a Reiter-Regiment (until appr. 1928) :

Regiments-Stab
- mit Trompeterkorps
- 1 Nachrichtenzug
- Funkstelle / Fernsprechtrupps / Tornister-Funktrupps

4 (Feld-) Eskadrons

1 (E-) Eskadron
= Ausbildungs-Eskadron (named A-Eskadron during the 1920s) [training]

1 sMG-Zug

(general order per 01.10.1934 : Eskadron renamed to Schwadron)

I have no KStN for the Stab at hand right now. Unfortunately Christoph's "WW2 day by day" is down at the moment, there surely is one. There surely were more than 26 men in total in the "Stab", 26 with pistols - could be.

What I mean basically with "aspects" : weren't the weapons "auf Waffenkammer" [in the armoury] and handed out occasionally ? Other situation post-1939 of course. But what happened with the RR 11 armoury after the restructuring ? Was it transferred according to the transfer of personell ?
So, it's not evident without knowing further facts to think about a combat history of the weapon with 1. or 3. Pz.Div.

Best regards
Bernd

geo69jock
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Re: Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#6

Post by geo69jock » 12 Nov 2008, 03:13

Bernd R
Staff Member:

Thank you for confirming the sequence of transfer from Reiter Regiment 11 eventually to:

Schutzen Rgt.1 of 1ST Panzer Division, and 1/Schutzen Rgt.3 of 3rd Panzer Division !

I fully realize that there is no further "personal /human history" evidence of sequence transfer.

This is often the case

Very few lugers were "Regimentally Unit" marked, and even less personally marked !

Neve-the-less, the "Unit Sequence" does "Definitely Exist". from R.R.11 to Panzer Divisions !

Thank you again for your help !

geo69jock
Russell Anderson

Ron Smith
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Re: Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#7

Post by Ron Smith » 23 Aug 2009, 20:37

I've been lurking here for a period of time and have rarely posted. After reading that the 17th RR is of interest I thought that I would post this photo.

Ron

Image

Илья
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Location: russia

Re: Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#8

Post by Илья » 28 Oct 2015, 21:21

geo69jock wrote:There were Origionally three divisions of Reichswehr Reiter Cavalry, eash containing six regiments:

Ist Division: Regiments 1-6
2nd Division: Regiments 7-12
3rd Division: Regiments 13-18

After 1935 these Divisions were (converted / merged) into the expanding Wehrmacht.

The website: German Army Cavalry 1935-1941 explains this process.

Eighteen Reiter Regiments were converted into Fourteen Kavallerie Regiments

In what sequence did this conversion occur ?

"Eighteen" does not merge with "Fourteen" evenly, particularly when the 1st Kavallerie Brigade (East Prussia) got Reiter Regiments 1-2, in their entirety.

That leaves Reiter Regiments 3-18 to be (converted / merged) into Kavallerie Regiments (Numbered 3,4,5,6,8,9,10,11,13,14, 15, and 17), twelve in total !

In what sequence did the remaining 16 reiter regimens (convert / merge) into 12 Kavallerie Regiments ?

I am particularly interested in the (conversion / merge) of the 11th Reiter Regiment. It was disolved and
(converted / merged) into a Kavallerie Regiment in 1936.

To which Kavallerie Regiment were the troops of the 11th Reiter Regiment sent?
Image
Image
http://militariaclub.ru/_directory/%d1% ... au-torgau/

Antonio_Cecilio
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Joined: 28 Feb 2023, 05:30
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: Reiter Regiments to Kavallerie Regiments

#9

Post by Antonio_Cecilio » 28 Feb 2023, 05:42

Hello, this is my first post here so pardon if it's formatted poorly. I recently acquired an untitled photo album that has a photo in it captioned 'Stab K. R. 17. 1934.' I understand that it's likely referring to the officers of a K. R. 17 in the year 1934, and so far this Cavalry Regiment 17 you've mentioned seems to be the only K.R. 17 I could find. However, 1934 looks like it's earlier than when the regiment was called that, so perhaps they're just referring to them by their updated title from when the book was organized? Or i have the wrong regiment entirely? Any help would be appreciated :)

https://imgur.io/XTvEFnM?r
The photo I'm referring to ^

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