Unit emblems identification help

[Alanmccoubrey]

According Lexikon der Wehrmacht which lists the orbats for 1939 and 1942 a Beobachtings Abt did not have a Flakzug.

[B Hellqvist]

It's there, in the 4. (Balloon-) Batterie:

4. (Ballon-) Batterie (nur bei einem Teil der Abteilungen):
ausgerüstet mit Fesselballons (Steighöhe bis 1 000 m), Gaserzeugungs-Anlagen und leichtem Flak-Zug zum Schutz der Ballons gegen Luftangriffe.
Batterietrupp
Nachrichtenzug mit drei Funk- und drei Fernsprechtrupps
Ballonzug mit
-Ballontrupp
-Windentrupp (Zgkw 18 to mit 300 PS-Seilwinde auf Anhänger)
Auswertezug
I. und II. Gasstaffel
leichter Flak-zug mit 4 x 2 cm Flak.
Kfz.Inst.Trp
Troß

As I believe the AA guns were towed, it isn't of relevance anyway. The emblems looked similar enough, though. The mystery remains.

[Werter]

I have another photo with this emblem in my collection
I can make copy to post here

[Werter]

[B Hellqvist]

Wow, interesting! The sign (Y in circle) is that of the 12. Panzer-Division, which would indicate a timeframe of April - July 1941, but there's no mention of Beo.Abt.27 being attached to that unit. Since my post, I've concluded that the circle symbol in my photo is a H in circle, meaning a Heerestruppe. This is something of a mystery.

[Alanmccoubrey]

Since we are sure that it can't really be Beo.Abt. 27, due to it never being where this photograph must have been taken, can we also say that there are enough differences between its sign and the one of the trailer. There is no "arrow" running up the centre of the man and no white lines set back from the edge of the sleeves. Does anyone know if 12 PD had a Luftwaffe Flak unit attached ?

[Alanmccoubrey]

A quick look in Lexikon der Wehrmacht reveals that leicthe Flak-Abteilung 85 was attached to 12. PD at this time, so perhaps our mystery sign belongs to them.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /lFA75.htm

[Rnox]

Next pic for Beobachtungs-Abteilung 27 :



Rnox.

[Alanmccoubrey]

But once again it isn't the 27th's sign, there is no arrow , just a line, running up the front of the figure's coat and no trimming to his sleeves. You seem to be trying to make the picture fit your theory and not the theory fit the picture.

[grassi]

@ Werter
The little figure on the right side resembles a monk. This seems to be very similar to the coat of arms of the city of Munich: The Münchner Kindl:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchner_Kindl
Best regards
grassi

[Werter]

Thank you, grassi!
By the way, "Die Beobachtungs-Abteilung 27 wurde am 26. August 1939 in München, im Wehrkreis VII, aufgestellt." (c)lexikon

[Alanmccoubrey]

Thank you, grassi!
By the way, "Die Beobachtungs-Abteilung 27 wurde am 26. August 1939 in München, im Wehrkreis VII, aufgestellt." (c)lexikon

We all know that this unit was so formed, you are still ignoring the fact that it wasn't any where near where this photograph was taken, wasn't ever attached to 12. PD and wasn't ever attached to Panzer-Gruppe 3 and that the two figures are similar but not the same.

All in all you are ignoring all of the evidence and I do wish that you'd stop it.

[Werter]

Look at here

Die Selbstfahrlafette (Sd. Kfz. 10/4), Fahrgestell des le. Zgkw. 1t mit 2cm Flak 30, war als leichte Flak Selbstfahrlafette entwickelt worden. Die Produktion begann noch 1939. Die Karabiner- Halterungen auf den vorderen Kotflügeln wurden ab 1940 angebracht. Dieses Sd. Kfz. 10/4 gehörte zur Flak Abteilung 75 der 12. Panzer Division. Das Geschützschild und die Munitionskästen an den Bordwänden sind auf dieser Aufnahme gut zu erkennen. Beachte das Verbandsabzeichen.
http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/Hauptseit ... fette.html

[B Hellqvist]

OK, so we have two Flak units using very similar signs, and both raised in München.

[luckystrike78]

is it possible to determine with this small pic the branch of the army of this vehicle - infantry, engineers.....?

Source: Polish Campaign 1939