Unit emblems identification help

[Marcus]

A StuG in 1943.

/Marcus

[Kantemirovka]

Any ideas on this Beobachtungspanzer III on the Eastern Front 1943?

Thanks.

/Marcus

12. Panzer-Division.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... hen/12.gif

[Alanmccoubrey]

Marcus, I think that your StuG III might be StuG Abt 244.

http://www.die-sturmartillerie.com/wappen.htm

[Marcus]

Thanks to both of you.

/Marcus

[reinaart]

This pic is currently for sale on ebay, according to the seller it's a Pz.IV G from 20.Panzer Abteilung:

I haven't been able to find anything on a Panzer Abteilung 20 which makes me wonder if it ever existed. Can anybody tell me anything about the emblem? In some ways it looks like the emblem of 33.Panzer Regiment (9.PD) but the knight is definitely not brandishing a sword.

Arjan

[John Hilly]

I smell some framing in the photo.
The tank looks factory new, and just camo-painted. Something doesn't seem to fit...

With care
Juha-Pekka

[Alanmccoubrey]

Isn't that "knight" insignia in an odd place too ?

[reinaart]

"senschumas" is a seller who usually has copies of ECPAD pics on offer ( a French archive). His activities may not be strictly legal (I doubt ECPAD would approve of his transactions if they knew about them) but I don't think the pic is a fake. At least, I have never seen any fake pics from him.

Arjan

[Alanmccoubrey]

Arjan, Can you then explain to me how the left front plate of the truret skirting armour is that shade and has a very clean knight painted on it ?

[reinaart]

I assume one or two darker camo colours were sprayed on top of the base colour. After that white numbers and other markings were stencilled on? Nothing suspicious about that or is there? In my view the only funny thing in the pic is the strange object/blot near the cupola.

Arjan

[Alanmccoubrey]

Arjan, I was trying to ignore what to me seems to be a little flag stuck in a smoke grenade discharger.

[reinaart]

Two more pics of the same vehicle have surfaced today:


Personally I'm convinced that these are not fakes. I wonder if the pics could be of 21.Panzer Regiment, 20.PD. That might explain the mistake regarding the non-existent "20.Panzer Abteilung".

edit: In the mean time I've found some 21.PR Pz.IV pics and these vehicles had elephant emblems on the rear turret-skirt....

Arjan

[reinaart]

Yet another pic to add to the collection. The "strange object" was indeed a flag :


Arjan

[John Hilly]

Personally I'm convinced that these are not fakes. I wonder if the pics could be of 21.Panzer Regiment, 20.PD. That might explain the mistake regarding the non-existent "20.Panzer Abteilung".
edit: In the mean time I've found some 21.PR Pz.IV pics and these vehicles had elephant emblems on the rear turret-skirt....

I still claim these photos have been manipulated. Too clean, too clear and from a modeller's box!?

With best
Juha-Pekka

[reinaart]

I would like to put forward the following suggestion. Wolfgang Darius, commander of 21.PR of 20.PD was awarded a Ritterkreuz in 1943. This pic (source Wehrmacht Awards Forum) was taken during the ceremony:

The pics of the Pz.IV also clearly show a ceremony (including a very similar band of musicians) taking place. Could it be that 301 was Darius's vehicle and that the knight's emblem was a reference to his Ritterkreuz (which might imply this particular emblem was only applied to his tank)? For some reason I also think that the knight's emblem is on the strange banner.

Arjan