2 Panzer weapons strength june 1944

[WAKEN]

Zetterling's excellent book "Normandy 1944 – German Military Organisation, Combat Power and Organisational Effectiveness" includes details on weapons holdings on various dates in spring/early summer 1944 for a number of German units that fought in Normandy. His listings, however; are incomplete.

For 2nd Panzer he gives the following details:

5 June
Pz Regt 3 had 96 Pz IVs and 79 Panthers
Art Regt 74 had 12 Wespe, 6 Hummel and 26 towed pieces WHAT WERE THESE 26 TOWED PIECES?
The division had 21 Jagdpanzer IVs, 25 PaK 40s, 476 SPWs and 8 8.8cm flak

Does anyone have details on numbers of other weapons/vehicles on strength at the beginning of June (I'm thinking of machineguns, mortars, infantry guns, light flak guns etc.)

Thanks,

Neil

[Martin Block]

Just a few weeks earlier in early May the Division had reported the following inventory of small arms and other weapons
- 11520 rifles (0 short of authorized strength)
- 1699 submachine guns (233 short of authorized strength)
- 1035 light machine guns (158 short of authorized strength)
- 72 heavy machine guns (0 short of authorized strength)
- 51 medium mortars (0 short of authorized strength)
- 0 heavy mortars (8 short of authorized strength)
- 10 light infantry guns (0 short of authorized strength)
- 6 towed heavy infantry guns (0 short of authorized strength)
- 14 towed light field howitzers (0 short of authorized strength)
- 8 towed heavy field howitzers (0 short of authorized strength)
- 4 10 cm cannons (0 short of authorized strength)
- 25 towed heavy a/t guns (0 short of authorized strength)
- 48 2 cm Flak (2 short of authorized strength)
- 7 2 cm Flak Vierling (3 short of authorized strength)
- 52 flame throwers (0 short of authorized strength)
Soft skinned vehicles:
- 636 motorbikes of all kinds (0 short of authorized strength)
- 714 cars of all kinds (0 short of authorized strength)
- 1608 trucks of all kinds (171 short of authorized strength)
- 120 half-tracks 1 - 18 to (36 short of authorized strength)

Some of the missing weapons/vehicles were probably delivered later during the month. So at the time of the Allied Invasion the 2. Pz.Div. was pretty close to full authorized strength.

Martin Block

[WAKEN]

Martin,

That's fantastic information. Thanks! What is your source?

Regards,

Neil

[Martin Block]

My sources are the monthly status reports prepared by the 2. Pz.Div. in 1944 and nowadays and kept by German Bundesarchiv in Freiburg.

Martin Block

[WAKEN]

Martin,

Do you have any details on armoured cars on strength?

Thanks,

Neil

[Martin Block]

On 1.6.1944 the divisional Pz.Aufkl.Abt. 2 reported 1 le.Pz.Späh-Wg. and 36 s.Späh-Wg. available: 25 Sd.Kfz. 234/2 'Puma', 6 Sd.Kfz. 233, 6 Sd.Kfz. 231/232 and 1 Sd.Kfz. 222.

Martin Block

[WAKEN]

Thanks very much Martin

[WAKEN]

If anybody has the same data for 1 May 44 or 1 June 44 or 1 July 44 for any other units that fought in Normandy and is happy to share it I would be very grateful for it.

Thanks,

Neil

[WAKEN]

I'm doing a weight of fire study for units in Normandy 1944. To progress my research I'm looking for monthly weapons returns for German divisions that ended up in Normandy. The returns for 1 May, 1 June or 1 July 1944 are those in particular that I'm looking for.

I'm looking for similar data to that kindly posted about 2nd Panzer Division by Martin, for other German divisions that fought in Normandy. I'd be happy to share my research with anybody that can help.

Thanks,

Neil

[Simon Orchard]

It may help you to know that what you're after are the 'Zustandsberichte' that were passed up from unit to korps then armee on a monthly basis.

If others cant help you then you can always have a go at finding them yourself by looking through the NARA guides to captured German records, available at Sturmpanzer http://www.sturmpanzer.com/Default.aspx ... em=1&sec=1

[WAKEN]

Thanks for the lead Simon, I'll take a look...

Cheers,

Neil

[WAKEN]

Unfortunately the only hits I got when I searched for 'Zustandsberichte' was for dates prior to those I'm interested in (May to July 1944)

[Martin Block]

Waken

Just to give you an impression: If we are just looking at larger German armored formations in Normandy you are asking for some 30 such reports, not counting infanty divisions and independent GHQ formations. By far not all 'Zustandsberichte' are as detailed as the one I quoted from. Especially regarding light weapons information often is much more general. To get to the level of detail you want - if you had to start from zero - would require months or even years of research in Archives (if you not happen to live next door to one) screening thousands of documents and/or uncounted microfilm rolls at army group, army, corps, divisional level. Check out for instance the sources listed by Zetterling and you perhaps can imagine how much time, effort - and not at least money - goes into this kind of research. So response to your request may naturally a bit reserved

Martin Block

[WAKEN]

Thanks Martin. I thought that would be the case. I'm hoping people may be generous enough, as you were with 2nd Panzer; to share some details on this forum

Here's my very long 'wish list':

I'm looking for the authorised and actual manpower, weapon and AFV strength returns for May, June & July 44 (depending on when the units were committed, see below) for any German divs/units that fought in Normandy.

Units I'm interested in:

12 SS Pz - June or May return
1 SS Pz - July or June return
2 SS Pz - July or June return
10 SS Pz - July or June return
9 SS Pz - July or June return
17 SS Pz Gren - June or May return
116 Pz - July or June return
Pz Lehr - June or May return
9 Pz - August or July return
21 Pz - June or May return
5 FJ - July or June return
3 FJ - June or May return
2 FJ - August or July return
6 FJ - August or July return
16 Luft - July or June return
77 ID - June or May return
84 ID - August or July return
85 ID - August or July return
89 ID - August or July return
91 ID - June or May return
243 ID - June or May return
265 ID - June or May return
266 ID - June or May return
271 ID - July or June return
272 ID - July or June return
275 ID - June or May return
276 ID - July or June return
277 ID - July or June return
326 ID - July or June return
331 ID - August or July return
343 ID - August or July return
346 ID - June or May return
352 ID - June or May return
353 ID - June or May return
363 ID - August or July return
708 ID - August or July return
709 ID - June or May return
711 ID - June or May return
716 ID - June or May return
Sich Regt 1 - August or July return
Schn Bde 30 - June or May return
FJ Regt 6 - June or May return
FJ Aufk Abt 12 - June or May return
MG Bn 17 - June or May return
Pioneer Bn 600 - July or June return
Pioneer Bn Angers - June or May return
Sturm Bn AOK 7 - June or May return
sSS Pz Abt 101 - June or May return
sSS Pz Abt 102 - July or June return
Sturmpz Abt 217 - August or July return
sPz Abt 503 - July or June return
sPzJg Abt 654 - August or July return
PzJg Abt 657 - June or May return
PzJg Abt 668 - August or July return
Art Pak Abt 1039 - August or July return
Art Pak Abt 1040 - July return
Art Pak Abt 1041 - July return
Art Pak Abt 1053 - July or June return
FJ StuG Bde 12 - June or May return
StuG Bde 341 - August or July return
StuG Bde 394 - August or July return
StuG Abt 902 - June or May return
StuG Abt 1348 - August or July return

Thanks very much.

Regards,

Neil

[Simon Orchard]

Neil

That's quite a list. Even where they do survive, you'll find that not all units sent in lists of small arms numbers every month and there's also variation in the detail they reported. Within my own area of research (20 Gebirgs Armee), most of these reports remain for june to dec '44 and they cover 3 microfilm rolls. To give you an idea of what you may find i've attached 2 examples from Jul'44 (ie. reporting for the month of June) from the 6 Geb.Div. and 6 SS-Geb.Div.
The other elements of the returns include a divisional gliederung, a strength return on personnel, vehicles and horses along with a short note on combat worth and state of training, sometime also notes on major deficiencies.

Another avenue of approach for you might be to look at the O.Qu. records. Sometimes you'll find ammunition lists which also included numbers of each weapon within the army. I've come across several such lists withing the 20 Geb.Armee and they're very useful.