Panzer-Lehr-Division 1/6/44

[WAKEN]

Zetterling says that Panzer-Lehr-Division had 14,699 men on 1 June 1944. He gives the following details for weapons held (including the attached Panzer-Kompanie 316 (Funklenk) on the same date:

99 Panzer IV
89 Panzer V
31 Jagdpanzer IV
10 StuG III
3 Tiger I
5 Tiger II
693 SPW
12 10.5cm howitzers
A battalion with 15.2cm howitzers
I/Artillery Regiment 130 was in Germany receiving Wespe and Hummel
18 8.8cm flak

Each Panzer Grenadier battalion had:

108 MGs
6 8cm mortars
39 Panzerschrecks
9 3.7cm on SPW
8 7.5cm on SPW

Questions:
1. From searching this forum I believe that the battalion with 15.2cm howitzers actually had 4 KH 15.2cm, 4 sFH 18 and 4 K 18. Is this correct?
2. From searching this forum I believe that Panzer Aufklarungs Abteilung 130 had 26 Sd.Kfz. 234/2 'Puma', 16 Sd.Kfz. 250/9, 1 Sd.Kfz. 250/10, 6 Sd.Kfz. 251/9 and 4 Sd.Kfz. 251/10. Is this correct? What other weapons did this unit have?
3. What weaponry did the Pioneer battalion have?
4. Does the figure of 14,699 men include Panzer-Kompanie 316?
5. What was the authorised manpower strength of the division?
6. What was the total holding of weapons including those not mentioned by Zetterling: 15cm sIG (Sf), 7.5cm leIG, 3.7cm flak, 2cm flak, 7.5cm Pak, 8cm mortars, machine pistols, rifles?

Thanks,

Neil

[WAKEN]

From further research I believe that the division was 65 men over strength and that it had 18 heavy Pak guns. 12 of those heavy Pak would have been in the Panzer Grenadier battalions, what about the other 6?

[Kelvin]

Hi Neil,
First question : incorrect : 12 x 15.2 cm is correct
Second question : no 251/10 and 250/10, there were two 250/7 in 3. and 4 aufk kompanie each and towed 7.5 le IG and towed Pak 40 in 5. schwere aufk komp.
Third question : Panzer Pioneer battalion equipment : each kompanie had two 251/7 and six 251/16 and 16-18 251/7.
fourth question : yes
fifth quesgtion : 14,643 men
sixth question : each PG regiment had six Grille ( total 11 operational on June 1 1944), also 18 x Pak 40, two 7.5 cm le IG, 8 x sdfkz 10/4 and 2 x sdkfz 7/1.

[WAKEN]

Thanks Kelvin. Do you know what the distribution of the 18 Pak 40 was? From your post it looks like 3 were in 5. schwere aufk komp.

Regards,

Neil

[Kelvin]

Hi Neil,
First question : incorrect : 12 x 15.2 cm is correct
Second question : no 251/10 and 250/10, there were two 250/7 in 3. and 4 aufk kompanie each and towed 7.5 le IG and towed Pak 40 in 5. schwere aufk komp.
Third question : Panzer Pioneer battalion equipment : each kompanie had two 251/7 and six 251/16 and 16-18 251/7.
fourth question : yes
fifth quesgtion : 14,643 men
sixth question : each PG regiment had six Grille ( total 11 operational on June 1 1944), also 18 x Pak 40, two 7.5 cm le IG, 8 x sdfkz 10/4 and 2 x sdkfz 7/1.

Correction : Pioneer battalion : each kompanie had two 251/2 , not 251/7, just mistake typing.

[Kelvin]

Thanks Kelvin. Do you know what the distribution of the 18 Pak 40 was? From your post it looks like 3 were in 5. schwere aufk komp.

Regards,

Neil

Hi, Neil, I will check my OOB data, I will tell you later.

Kelvin

[WAKEN]

Thanks Kelvin. My guess on the Pak 40s is 3 in each panzer grenadier battalion and 3 in the division HQ. Do you have the details of the flak weapons in the division? The 18 8.8cm flak I know about. I believe that there would normally be 12 2cm flak in each panzer grenadier regiment and 3 quad 2cm flak in each panzer battalion in addition to 2cm/3.7cm guns in the flak battalion.

Regards,

Neil

[Kelvin]

Hi, Neil,
Only 901 Panzergrenadier regiment had its own flak kompanie which consisted of 8 x sdkfz 10/4 and 2 x sdkfz 7/1. 902 PG regt did not have its own flak unit. But remember that divisional flak battalion had 18 x 8.8 cm, it was more than normal 12- gun flak battalion.

Kelvin

[WAKEN]

Thanks again Kelvin. If anybody could confirm that the panzer battalions each had 3 quad 2cm flak and also what flak guns the Flak battalion had in addition to the 18 8.8cm that would be great.

Regards,

Neil

[Kelvin]

Hi, Neil, I confirm to you that no any flak in Panzer regiment in actual strength on June 1 1944. No other flak in Flak abteilung too.

Kelvin

[WAKEN]

That's a big surprise! Thanks Kelvin.

[WAKEN]

Just checking I've got flak in Panzer Lehr 1/6/44 correct: the only flak guns the division had were 18 8.8cm in the Flak battalion, 2 quad 2cm and 8 2cm in 901 Panzer Grenadier Regiment. Is that correct?
By comparison 2nd Panzer Division had 8 8.8cm, 10 quad 2cm and 60 2cm flak on the same date. Given the reputation of Panzer Lehr as 'the best equipped' panzer division in the German Army, its flak strength doesn't match that reputation.

Regards,

Neil

[Tony M Ormandy]

Plus the 12 Flakpanzer 38(T)s in the panzer regiment.
Tony

[WAKEN]

Tony,

Is that 12 Flakpanzer 38(t) in Lehr? I included the 12 in 2nd Panzer in my total of 60 2cm flak.

Regards,

Neil

[Tony M Ormandy]

Report this postReply with quote Flakpanzer 38
by Martin Block on 26 Oct 2006 15:38

Some additional infos and corrections to what Ron has writen above:

The original delivery records for Flakpz. 38 kept by the Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. show that all 140 production vehicles initially went to the Pz.Ers.u.Ausb.Abt. 204 in Schwetzingen:
12 shipped on 21.12.1943
36 shipped on 30.12.1943
44 shipped on 23.1.1944
34 shipped on 18.2.1944
14 shipped on 18.3.1944
The shipment of 12 on 21.12.1943 is actually listed as intended for Pz.Lehr-Div., so this apparently was the first division ment to be equipped with them.
However, all were concentrated in Schwetzingen first and after completion of training the Pz.Fla-Züge were sent from there to the combat units.
On 15.9.1944 the 3.(Pz.Fla)/Pz.Ers.u.Ausb.Abt. 204 filed the following list of shipment dates for the Pz.Fla-Züge (in some cases different from what has been written above):

12 shipped to Pz.Lehr-Div. on 10.2.1944
12 shipped to 2. Pz.Div. on 10.2.1944
12 shipped to 21. Pz.Div. on 16.2.1944 (Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. later noted 10.2.1944)
12 shipped to 90.Pz.Gren.Div. on 19.2.1944
12 shipped to 26. Pz.Div. on 24.2.1944
12 shipped to 29.Pz.Gren.Div. on 26.2.1944
12 shipped to 10. SS-Pz.Div. on 20.3.1944 [transfer to 2. SS-Pz.Div. orderd 29.4./1.5.1944]
12 shipped to 9. SS-Pz.Div. on 21.3.1944 [transfer to 1. SS-Pz.Div. ordered 29.4./1.5.1944]
12 shipped to Pz.Div. HG on 26.3.1944
12 shipped to 12. SS-Pz.Div. on 12.4.1944
12 shipped to 17. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. on 19.6.1944 (only 4 reached the division, the others were lost on the way in the Le Mans area in early Aug. 1944)

That left 8 in reserve which were finally shipped as 'Nachschub West' by the Gen.Insp.d.Pz.Tr. intended for 10. (not 9.) SS-Pz.Div. on 7.9.1944 but then issued to 17. SS-Pz.Gren.Div. on 18.9.1944 instead.

Flakpz. 38 were not only employed in the West and in Italy but also on the Eastern Front!

1.) Both the 9. and 10. SS-Pz.Div. show 12 Flakpz. 38 on hand in their status reports dated 1.4. resp. 5.4.1944. At that time both divisions were heading east for the Tarnopol area respectively had already arrived there with elements. Currently I have no reason to believe that the Flakpanzers didn't make it there also and fired a few rounds at Soviet planes and ground targets. The order to hand over the tanks to 1. and 2. SS-Pz.Div. arrived only one month later.

2.) When the Pz.Div. HG left Italy it did NOT leave behind its Flakpz. 38! In the status report dated 5.12.1944 one can still find 6 of them attached to the Stab Fsch.Pz.Rgt. HG. Some time before 15.1.1945 they were handed over to the 4.(s.)/Korps-Sturm-Btl. Fsch.Pz.Korps HG.
3 of them were still present by 15.3.1945. Can't tell when or where the last one was lost.


Martin BlockMartin Block
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I hope this helps

Tony