Tank leader!

Discussions on all (non-biographical) aspects of the Freikorps, Reichswehr, Austrian Bundesheer, Heer, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Fallschirmjäger and the other Luftwaffe ground forces. Hosted by Christoph Awender.
User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 17:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Post by David C. Clarke » 03 Mar 2003 02:43

Hi Timo, okay, you've stumped me here--what is that funny lookiing little command car at the head of the Tiger column in the photo on the home page of the site http://www.ss-panzer.de/??

Best Regards, David

User avatar
Benoit Douville
Financial supporter
Posts: 3184
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 01:13
Location: Montréal

Post by Benoit Douville » 03 Mar 2003 03:23

Timo,

According to my sources Kurt Knispel had 162+ victories. What is your sources?

Regards
Last edited by Benoit Douville on 04 Mar 2003 01:46, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Xavier
Financial supporter
Posts: 3258
Joined: 12 Nov 2002 02:01
Location: Swedish guinea

howdy david1

Post by Xavier » 03 Mar 2003 03:29

hallo David!!!

the command car leading the Tigers is a captured british "Dingo" scout car.....
(from http://www.duxford.org)
regards

Xavier
Image

User avatar
David C. Clarke
Member
Posts: 11368
Joined: 10 Mar 2002 17:17
Location: U.S. of A.

Post by David C. Clarke » 03 Mar 2003 03:57

AHH Thanks Xavier, I thought it didn't look German. Reminded me of those little scout cars the British used in the 60s. Best Regards, David

User avatar
Silviu
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 25 Feb 2003 22:39
Location: Canada

Tank leader!

Post by Silviu » 03 Mar 2003 13:26

Thanks Timo for your corrections of my ideas. I will study more about the other panzer aces. With you, guys, I am learning something new everyday. Nice forum !

Silviu

User avatar
Daniel L
Member
Posts: 9119
Joined: 07 Sep 2002 00:46
Location: Sweden

Post by Daniel L » 03 Mar 2003 15:52

Benoit, it's spelled Knispel.

Best regards/ Daniel

User avatar
Silviu
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 25 Feb 2003 22:39
Location: Canada

Tank Leader!

Post by Silviu » 05 Mar 2003 02:00

Timo wrote:

[quote]...Hardly worth reading. It's a poor pastice of facts, myths and plain lies from earlier publications. In one word: crap

earlier publication such as.....

+german+
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 02 Feb 2003 15:35
Location: Romania

Post by +german+ » 05 Mar 2003 10:47

Thank you all for your information!Idid not know that my question will rise such a vast discusion! :)

User avatar
Benoit Douville
Financial supporter
Posts: 3184
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 01:13
Location: Montréal

Post by Benoit Douville » 06 Mar 2003 02:48

So I guess that Kurt Knispel had 162+ victories because no sources yet have been given by Timo.

heinz kling
Member
Posts: 167
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 01:22
Location: Memel

What do you mean by the best anyway?

Post by heinz kling » 06 Mar 2003 03:26

Timo Worst wrote:
Silviu wrote:SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Michael Wittmann was the most successful and famous tank commander of World War II. There is no doubt about this !
...No he was not, because there were several tank commanders who scored more kills. He was indeed the most famous, which explains why everybody assumes that he was the most successful.

- Kurt Knispel (s.Pz.Abt. 503) 168 tank kills
- Walter Schroif (s.SS-Pz.Abt.102) 161 tank kills
- Otto Carius (s.Pz.Abt. 502) 150+ tank kills
- Johannes Bölter (s.Pz.Abt. 502) 139-144 tank kills
- Michael Wittmann 138 tank kills

I beg to differ on this. Most will agree that Hans Joachim Marseille is the best fighter ace of all times, though not one with the most kills. Same applies to Michael Wittmann, and btw, I think he knocked out more paks than tanks, which most surviving members of the panzerwaffe agree are much more dangerous and harder to hit than a tank.
Not mentioning him when talking about pancer aces is like talking about WW1 fighter aces and not mentioning von Richthoffen.
No, its nothing like that because contrairy to Wittmann, who was not the mosy successful ace panzerzace of WW2, Von Richthofen was indeed the most successful fighterpilot in WW1.
or order from amazon.com
Tiger Ace/the Life Story of Panzer Commander Michael Wittmann
by Gary L. Simpson
ISBN: 0887405266
...Hardly worth reading. It's a poor pastice of facts, myths and plain lies from earlier publications. In one word: crap
I agree with Timo's comment on that Simpson book, a rip off with the author putting imaginary words and thoughts into Wittmann.

Timo
Member
Posts: 3869
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 22:09
Location: Europe

Post by Timo » 06 Mar 2003 06:54

Benoit Douville wrote:So I guess that Kurt Knispel had 162+ victories because no sources yet have been given by Timo.
Sorry, I overlooked your question. I used the Panzer aces list composed by the various Feldgrau visitors some months ago.

gabriel pagliarani
Member
Posts: 1583
Joined: 01 Aug 2002 03:11
Location: ITALY

Re: Tank leader!

Post by gabriel pagliarani » 11 Mar 2003 14:32

Timo Worst wrote:
Silviu wrote:SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer Michael Wittmann was the most successful and famous tank commander of World War II. There is no doubt about this !
...No he was not, because there were several tank commanders who scored more kills. He was indeed the most famous, which explains why everybody assumes that he was the most successful.

- Kurt Knispel (s.Pz.Abt. 503) 168 tank kills
- Walter Schroif (s.SS-Pz.Abt.102) 161 tank kills
- Otto Carius (s.Pz.Abt. 502) 150+ tank kills
- Johannes Bölter (s.Pz.Abt. 502) 139-144 tank kills
- Michael Wittmann 138 tank kills
Not mentioning him when talking about pancer aces is like talking about WW1 fighter aces and not mentioning von Richthoffen.
No, its nothing like that because contrairy to Wittmann, who was not the mosy successful ace panzerzace of WW2, Von Richthofen was indeed the most successful fighterpilot in WW1.
or order from amazon.com
Tiger Ace/the Life Story of Panzer Commander Michael Wittmann
by Gary L. Simpson
ISBN: 0887405266
...Hardly worth reading. It's a poor pastice of facts, myths and plain lies from earlier publications. In one word: crap
PLS. list every time the books to avoid because fulfilled of trash. I suggest you a sort of "INDICE" to be continuosly updated by moderators.

Timo
Member
Posts: 3869
Joined: 09 Mar 2002 22:09
Location: Europe

Post by Timo » 11 Mar 2003 17:16

I completely agree with you, Gabriel. Such a list would be very useful. Perhaps members can write small articles about the books they read?

+german+
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 02 Feb 2003 15:35
Location: Romania

Post by +german+ » 12 Mar 2003 14:28

I was looking on the net something about Panzer leaders and I have found more than I was looking for!!!
Visit:http://www.panzer-vi.fsnet.co.uk/
8O 8O 8O

Homer martin
Member
Posts: 262
Joined: 13 Mar 2002 12:08
Location: USA

hi

Post by Homer martin » 11 Apr 2003 00:02

Wow another of the list with Kurt Knispel (s.Pz.Abt. 503) as the top tank killer of the war, this subject has been covered by a number of post and once again, while Kurt is one of the top tank gunners and commanders of the war. As a tank comander he didn't break the 100 mark and those numbers are the only ones that count, not the numbers from the time he was a gunner.

Otto Carius (s.Pz.Abt. 502) kills are far closer to 120 than 150, just a little reseach shows when he got the Knights Cross, and the Knights Cross with Oak Leaves and the number of kills at the time of those awards.

Johannes Bölter (s.Pz.Abt. 502) 139-144 tank kills could be the only person with more kills than Wittmann, his numbers for the last 2-3 months of the war are the only ones in questions, I have him with 114 before he is wounded and out of action for while.

Micheal Wittmann's total is between 138-144.

Walter Schroif (s.SS-Pz.Abt.102) I haven't looked into his number yet.

/hgm

Return to “Heer, Waffen-SS & Fallschirmjäger”